# Will this election also be decided by the perverse American fetish for GUNS? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259 "2019-09-15T09:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/201 "2019-09-19T12:12:16Z")
> [@MartinLane](#): > > In the way that Trump has had more guns seized than any other president. Obviously this is the pit, but, still… cite? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/202 "2019-09-19T14:17:14Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Obviously this is the pit, but, still… cite? Yeah, at this time we need a bit more than “Because I say so.” ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/203 "2019-09-19T14:23:45Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > What does it matter? One has to wait to be exposed to horrible violence first before deserving to utilize the right to a gun? > > It’s a tool, just like any other, kept in service and hopefully never needing to be used. You know, I often hear people saying that a gun is just a tool, but I’ve never, ever seen a picture of someone holding up their Black and Decker cordless drill. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/204 "2019-09-19T15:06:54Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > You know, I often hear people saying that a gun is just a tool, but I’ve never, ever seen a picture of someone holding up their Black and Decker cordless drill. Funny you addressed the last part of my post but not the first. Speaks volumes. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/205 "2019-09-19T15:47:35Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Funny you addressed the last part of my post but not the first. > > Speaks volumes. Only in America does threat of violence justify the possession of a gun. But often not just one gun. An entire armory of guns and ammo. Everything from hand guns to assault style weapons. Justified not simply due to some threat of violence (real or imagined) but additionally by some delusional ideology that they are part of a citizen militia, ‘locked and loaded’ to repel tyrannical enemies, foreign and domestic, including their own government. Speaks volumes, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/206 "2019-09-19T16:04:28Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Only in America does threat of violence justify the possession of a gun. But often not just one gun. An entire armory of guns and ammo. Everything from hand guns to assault style weapons. Justified not simply due to some threat of violence (real or imagined) but additionally by some delusional ideology that they are part of a citizen militia, ‘locked and loaded’ to repel tyrannical enemies, foreign and domestic, including their own government. > > Speaks volumes, indeed. They can be a part of a militia and people can form a militia if they so choose. Those are rights. Mockery and hyperbole will never change it. I get it. You dislike guns, have strong feelings about the kind of guns you feel that people should be allowed to have, and spend a weird amount of time saying as much in multiple different ways and several different levels of mockery and insults. Still changes nothing. It’s a right. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/207 "2019-09-19T16:50:29Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > They can be a part of a militia and people can form a militia if they so choose. Those are rights. Mockery and hyperbole will never change it. > > I get it. You dislike guns, have strong feelings about the kind of guns you feel that people should be allowed to have, and spend a weird amount of time saying as much in multiple different ways and several different levels of mockery and insults. > > Still changes nothing. It’s a right. Fortunately, a lot of people are fed up with the status quo and do not stop at mockery. They are voting for gun controls and limiting access. Some 85%+ percent of the country agrees that status quo is no longer acceptable. When people vote, laws tend to change. So I would not be so sure about your “changes nothing” conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/208 "2019-09-19T17:24:58Z")
Even by Pit standards this has degenerated into pointless name-calling. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/209 "2019-09-19T17:37:49Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Even by Pit standards this has degenerated into pointless name-calling. No you are! ---
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/210 "2019-09-19T18:56:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Obviously this is the pit, but, still… cite? How is it that you nothing about this. It was all over the news for months. > **[Bump Stocks | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives](https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/bump-stocks)** > > On December 18, 2018, Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker announced that the Department of Justice has amended the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), clarifying that bump stocks fall within the... > [@](#): > > In response to that direction the Department reviewed more than 186,000 public comments and made the decision to make clear that the term “machinegun” as used in the National Firearms Act (NFA), as amended, and Gun Control Act (GCA), as amended, includes all bump-stock-type devices that harness recoil energy to facilitate the continuous operation of a semiautomatic long gun after a single pull of the trigger. Bump stocks are now machine guns, just like drop in auto sears. Since the regulation did not provide any sort of registration scheme, bump stocks are now contraband machine guns as they were all made after May 1986. Far more people supported keeping bump stocks legal during the comment period, but that did not stop Trump from making his first gun grab. Here is the final rule in the CFR’s. > **[2018-27763.pdf](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2018-12-26/pdf/2018-27763.pdf)** > > 428.76 KB > [@](#): > > The Department of Justice is amending the regulations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) to clarify that bump- stock-type devices—meaning ‘‘bump fire’’ stocks, slide-fire devices, and devices with certain similar characteristics—are ‘‘machineguns’’ as defined by the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1968 because such devices allow a shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger. After years of repeatedly telling Americans that bump stocks were legal semi-auto firearms, the feds folded like a lawn chair when Trump wanted to ban them. The NRA went right along with it by almost saying something bad about Trump. It also says the cost of the new regulation will be $312,141,666. That is without compensation. The only people compensated for their seized property are those in states that directed a buyback prior to the new federal regulation. The definition of a machine gun in 27 CFR 447.11 has been updated. > **[27 CFR § 447.11 - Meaning of terms.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/447.11)** So who else has grabbed more guns than Trump? Surely you recall that Clinton’s AWB of 1994 resulted in zero or few guns confiscated since the existing assault weapons were grandfathered in. A case could be made for FDR’s gun grab as the result of passage of the NFA of 1934, but I don’t know if there were 600,000 SBS, SBR’s silencers and machine guns in private hands back then. In any case. Those owners were allowed to register their NFA firearms instead of destroying or turning them in. ---
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/211 "2019-09-19T19:01:55Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > You know, I often hear people saying that a gun is just a tool, but I’ve never, ever seen a picture of someone holding up their Black and Decker cordless drill. You can’t see anything with your eyes closed so much. [https://www.google.com/search?q=man+posing+with+cordless+drill&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiKzLmKyd3kAhVYHzQIHVhHCU04FBD8BQgRKAE&biw=1138&bih=522](https://www.google.com/search?q=man+posing+with+cordless+drill&client=firefox-b-1-d&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiKzLmKyd3kAhVYHzQIHVhHCU04FBD8BQgRKAE&biw=1138&bih=522) ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/212 "2019-09-19T19:05:00Z")
> [@MartinLane](#): > > So who else has grabbed more guns than Trump? Sorry, that was good information you provided, but nowhere did it say that any guns were seized. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/213 "2019-09-19T19:07:39Z")
Wow, a “bump stock” is now a gun. Who knew? It’s particularly terrible when you consider that bump stocks have a long, long history and have been in use for years, going all the way back to the founding fathers. And of course it’s well known that you cannot reasonably be expected to operate any kind of a firearm without a bump stock. Why, bump stocks are simply really useful tools, and are an important part of anyone’s need to defend themselves, hunt or target shoot. When the next zombie apocalypse comes, don’t come crying to me because you can’t eliminate 15 - 20 zombies per minute. And when you need to overthrow the next illegitimate Democrat government, how can you do this without your trusty bump stock? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/214 "2019-09-19T19:12:06Z")
You. Fucking. _Moron_. [This is a “bump stock”](http://image.sportsmansguide.com/adimgs/l/6/648165_ts.jpg). A “bump stock” is not a type of firearm-it is a modification to a firearm, Martin McFlybrain. ---
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/215 "2019-09-19T19:25:01Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry, that was good information you provided, but nowhere did it say that any guns were seized. What do you think happens to them? The BATFE has provided instructions on how to destroy them. If you care to search for yourself, then you will see that people are turning them in and some others who did not are being arrested. I doubt that nearly half a million Americans are hiding their bump stocks in case the law changes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/216 "2019-09-19T19:29:27Z")
> [@MartinLane](#): > > What do you think happens to them? The BATFE has provided instructions on how to destroy them. If you care to search for yourself, then you will see that people are turning them in and some others who did not are being arrested. > > I doubt that nearly half a million Americans are hiding their bump stocks in case the law changes. Who gives a flying fuck if bump stocks are grabbed. _ **Bump Stocks Are Not Firearms** _ ---
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/217 "2019-09-19T19:32:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You. > Fucking. > _Moron_. > > [This is a “bump stock”](http://image.sportsmansguide.com/adimgs/l/6/648165_ts.jpg). A “bump stock” is not a type of firearm-it is a modification to a firearm, Martin McFlybrain. So the definition of a firearm is what Czarcasm says, not what the federal government says? I run in to this at times. A person’s sole argument is their imaginary definition of legal terms instead of the real thing. Good luck with that. If a person is accused of bump stock possession, they would be charged with a violation of the NFA of 1934 which calls for a $10,000 fine and 10 years in prison. Will their defense be “My bump stock is not a gun”? Probably not. If anyone tries to make that kind of defense, their lawyer will call them a moron. Think about it, who defines what a machine gun is? You or the federal government? ---
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/218 "2019-09-19T19:33:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Wow, … Sooooo, Trump a gun grabber or not? ---
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/219 "2019-09-19T19:34:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who gives a flying fuck if bump stocks are grabbed. > _ **Bump Stocks Are Not Firearms** _ The owners care. It does not matter how you dress up your post with ignorance and profanity, some people care. Your willful ignorance does not trump federal law either. With an attitude like that, your ass is going to end up in a sling someday. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/220 "2019-09-19T19:35:01Z")
> [@martinlane](#): > > so the definition of a firearm is what czarcasm says, not what the federal government says? I run in to this at times. A person’s sole argument is their imaginary definition of legal terms instead of the real thing. Good luck with that. > > If a person is accused of bump stock possession, they would be charged with a violation of the nfa of 1934 which calls for a $10,000 fine and 10 years in prison. Will their defense be “my bump stock is not a gun”? Probably not. If anyone tries to make that kind of defense, their lawyer will call them a moron. > > Think about it, who defines what a machine gun is? You or the federal government? Too stupid to argue with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259.md?page=12)