# Will this election also be decided by the perverse American fetish for GUNS? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259 "2019-09-15T09:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/341 "2019-09-24T23:16:31Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Look, I recognize that it’s a dangerous world, at least our corner of it. If you want a gun to protect you home, your family, or your business, I don’t have a problem with that. I don’t hunt, but if that’s the way you choose to spend your time, unless you’ve demonstrated an inability to do so safely like, say, Dick Cheney, I have no problem with that. But the ability to throw enough lead in _thirty_ seconds to kill nine people and injure twenty-seven others is not something that should be in the hands of any moron with a pulse. And anybody who thinks otherwise flirts with being in that category themselves. This is a fair, lucid and excellent argument. I appreciate this. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/342 "2019-09-25T00:24:48Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > _Sigh_ > > Always the reaching for a racial narrative. I’m actually surprised it took this long for someone to say it. > > It’s not okay. I was illustrating a point of hypocrisy in regards to firearm restrictions and actual per capita firearm related crimes. Banning only restricts the majority of responsible legal owners whereas criminals are barely affected. > > Protip: Suggestions and allusions to bigotry and racism in such a sense is akin and almost synonymous with Godwin’s law in principle. You automatically forfeit an argument if you go that route. Your indignation would be far more interesting to me if it weren’t covered in crap. You tried to obfuscate the discussion by dragging in non-sequitors, and then got butt-hurt when you got called out on it. Don’t want to get shot down? Don’t take Snoopy’s doghouse-Sopwith-camel into the No-Fly Zone. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/343 "2019-09-25T17:12:47Z")
I’m still waiting for those left-wing terrorism incidents. I haven’t freaked out about anything today yet. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/344 "2019-09-25T18:31:36Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > _Sigh_ > > Always the reaching for a racial narrative. I’m actually surprised it took this long for someone to say it. > > It’s not okay. I was illustrating a point of hypocrisy in regards to firearm restrictions and actual per capita firearm related crimes. Banning only restricts the majority of responsible legal owners whereas criminals are barely affected. > > Protip: Suggestions and allusions to bigotry and racism in such a sense is akin and almost synonymous with Godwin’s law in principle. You automatically forfeit an argument if you go that route. If guns were outlawed, then there would be by definition no responsible legal owners. Everyone who had a gun would be a criminal. But you seem to be working with some definition of “criminal” other than “someone who commits crimes”, because you seem to feel it would be reasonable for people to commit\* that \*particular crime. So, if it isn’t a person’s actions that makes them a criminal, what is it? Why is it that some people who own guns illegally are “criminals” and others “responsible legal owners”? I’m finding it hard to imagine a plausible answer that doesn’t, in your oh so snowflakey phrase, “reach for a racial narrative”. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/345 "2019-09-25T20:38:26Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > If guns were outlawed, then there would be by definition no responsible legal owners. Everyone who had a gun would be a criminal. But you seem to be working with some definition of “criminal” other than “someone who commits crimes”, because you seem to feel it would be reasonable for people to commit\* that \*particular crime. So, if it isn’t a person’s actions that makes them a criminal, what is it? Why is it that some people who own guns illegally are “criminals” and others “responsible legal owners”? I’m finding it hard to imagine a plausible answer that doesn’t, in your oh so snowflakey phrase, “reach for a racial narrative”. Set aside for the moment the legality of owning a gun in the first place, and ask if someone has ever used a gun as a tool in the furtherance of a crime: murder; attempted murder; assault and battery; armed robbery; terroristic threats; vandalism; poaching. These do somehow seem morally and ethically different from a mere scofflaw, unless one is so hoplophobic as to define the mere possession of a firearm as “depraved indifference” to the well-being of others. “No excuses, The Law is The Law” as an excuse for demanding unquestioning compliance to the dictates of government has long been recognized as a morally bankrupt stance. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/346 "2019-09-26T01:22:20Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > In fact humans with a generous spirit and a rational brain are much _less_ likely than Trumpnuts and racists to even want guns. If/when the streets of the U.S.A. are fraught with civil strife, the racists, haters and imbeciles will have the firepower advantage. OK, maybe the righties _do_ have more guns, but the left knows how to build bombs that work. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/347 "2019-09-27T21:19:32Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m still waiting for those left-wing terrorism incidents. I haven’t freaked out about anything today yet. I guess you’ve forgotten all the people slaughtered by Antifa and Hillary during the Bowling Green massacre 😃 Forget it. Don’t hold your breath. That asshole won’t be coming back with any REAL evidence or cites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259.md?page=17)