# Will this election also be decided by the perverse American fetish for GUNS? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259 "2019-09-15T09:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/21 "2019-09-15T15:24:11Z")
Trying to figure out where I sit on the issue. Number one, we do need stricter gun laws. Oh yes. I own 10 guns. All off them handed down to me in one way or anther from family. I have not bought one of them. I used to love shooting clay pigeons. Great fun that. Target shooting with a .22 is great fun. I live way up in the Colorado mountains. I’ve had black bear rip off the door to my shed three times now. My first encounter with a black bear 27 years ago was when I found one in the back of my pick up truck. I do like having something to dissuade them, though I would never shoot one. My feeling is that I’m intruding on them. Banging pots and pans or yelling at them does not always work. A shot from a large caliber rifle or pistol into a tree stump near them seems to do the job if they are staking out the house. I am going to keep at least a rifle and revolver. I don’t have any full time neighbors up at this altitude (11,200). But, there are enough people around hiking and such that I don’t target shoot. The pop/noise of even a .22 would make an otherwise relaxed day in the mountains less fun. What I did do is by a .22 air rifle (so I have bought one gun). It needs a special compressor to get it charged up to 3000psi. It’s nearly silent to shoot and can get dime sized groups at 100 feet. That’s fun. And after the initial investment, very cheap to shoot. What should I do? Sell them? To whom? What would they do with them? Don’t want to just destroy them either. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/22 "2019-09-15T15:24:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If you’ve reached the point where you’re shooting at your own armed forces, you’ve already lost. \*Everyone’s \*already lost. Gun nuts live in an alternate reality where it’s inevitable that either they will fight the government, or they will outlive a collapsed government. Gun nuts understand that, in a standoff with government forces, they are going to die. They are OK with this. Mainly because it’s mostly posturing - it’s easy to act badass about something that’s never going to happen. But when contemplating the risk of death, the Christian death cult believes it will be rewarded in the afterlife for its faithfulness. Gun nuts don’t care about the impact to society or other people because the point is the ability to harm other people, and Jesus is coming to reconquer the world with fire anyway when Revelations comes true. Gun nuts say their opponents are afraid of their rifles only because they’re scary and black, and have no problem with wooden rifle of similar function. They lack the self awareness to reflect on why they have a toddler-like insistence on buying the flashy, menacing black rifle instead of the wooden-stock rifle of similar function. These people are mentally ill and we need to stop equipping them with toys to furnish their rage fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/23 "2019-09-15T15:38:01Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > And here I thought that was the First Amendment, ya know “and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” . . . oh and that whole voting thing, I’m sure that’s part of it too! > > Do you think an AR platform rifle can stop a tank? > > CMC fnord! I think if the government or the military were given orders to drive tanks through their home towns and raid their own people, most of those guns would probably end up pointing at the same targets as the citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/24 "2019-09-15T15:41:42Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Do you consider it tyrannical for the government to deny you a rocket propelled grenade launcher, should you choose that means of defense? If not, why not? It’s a choice the government is denying you when you are deciding how to protect yourself and your family. And if the government can deny you that choice without descending into tyranny, why does the denial of a rifle become tyrannical? Neither “rifle” or “rocket launcher” are explicitly mentioned in the constitution, yet both are arguably “arms”, which is referenced. So, if there is a distinction, what is it? The rifle is the last bastion. They’ve blocked and banned everything else. I believe there should be some regulation. I’m not unreasonable. But saying I can’t have nukes and rockets is the same thing as banning rifles is asinine. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/25 "2019-09-15T15:44:06Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > The rifle is the last bastion. They’ve blocked and banned everything else. > > I believe there should be some regulation. I’m not unreasonable. But saying I can’t have nukes and rockets is the same thing as banning rifles is asinine. Ok, well what about semi-automatic rifles with deep magazines? What is it about being able to fire several shots a second until the magazine is empty is a **Constitutional Right**. One that is **necessary** for our freedom to be maintained? We can argue all day about whether or not it’s a net good or a net bad, but it looks like to me if a majority of voters decide that this isn’t a **necessary** right, and the legislature passed laws making this type of weapon illegal without a special license, then that’s that. The gun-grabbing could commence. There are so many out there and few records, so sure, some people would keep those rifles hidden away for generations. But most would be found, and no one would openly carry them anywhere or even take them out in public. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/26 "2019-09-15T15:45:11Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Gun nuts live in an alternate reality where it’s inevitable that either they will fight the government, or they will outlive a collapsed government. > > Gun nuts understand that, in a standoff with government forces, they are going to die. They are OK with this. Mainly because it’s mostly posturing - it’s easy to act badass about something that’s never going to happen. But when contemplating the risk of death, the Christian death cult believes it will be rewarded in the afterlife for its faithfulness. > > Gun nuts don’t care about the impact to society or other people because the point is the ability to harm other people, and Jesus is coming to reconquer the world with fire anyway when Revelations comes true. > > Gun nuts say their opponents are afraid of their rifles only because they’re scary and black, and have no problem with wooden rifle of similar function. They lack the self awareness to reflect on why they have a toddler-like insistence on buying the flashy, menacing black rifle instead of the wooden-stock rifle of similar function. > > These people are mentally ill and we need to stop equipping them with toys to furnish their rage fantasies. You’ve built yourself a pretty amusing caricature in that little noggin of yours. I could build the same caricature about your worst kind of people and use that as justification to declare them mentally ill too (which they probably would be in all fairness) but that would be stupid. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/27 "2019-09-15T15:49:28Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It won’t be decided by guns. Gun nuts always vote and they always vote Republican. That isn’t going to change. If Beto is nominated and runs on taking away AK47s, the gun nuts will vote for the Orange Rapist. Just like they would no matter who the Democrats nominated. > > I feel disgust for gun nuts. The one issue that matters to them most, the one hill they want to die on, is to preserve their ability to possess the means to slaughter other humans. They’re pathetic pieces of shit and the blood of those killed in churches and high schools and concerts is on their hands. Fuck every single one of them in the ass with a red hot poker. It’s the fact that deranged psychopaths such as yourself exist that motivates the prudent to take reasonable precautions. However, I am sympathetic to the idea that perhaps not everyone needs access to rifles that can kill 60 people a minute. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/28 "2019-09-15T15:49:55Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Ok, well what about semi-automatic rifles with deep magazines? What is it about being able to fire several shots a second until the magazine is empty is a **Constitutional Right**. One that is **necessary** for our freedom to be maintained? > > We can argue all day about whether or not it’s a net good or a net bad, but it looks like to me if a majority of voters decide that this isn’t a **necessary** right, and the legislature passed laws making this type of weapon illegal without a special license, then that’s that. The gun-grabbing could commence. But it wouldn’t be. You’d have Waco’s and Ruby Ridges out the ass and the government turning on its own people, a constitutional crisis, and a very serious problem. Want to grab guns? Change the amendment the way it was intended. Can’t do that? You don’t have a suitable majority. You should look up “In common use at the time” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/29 "2019-09-15T15:51:00Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > I think if the government or the military were given orders to drive tanks through their home towns and raid their own people… I think worrying about far-fetched B-movie scenarios like this instead of the real problems we face every day is a sickness that is ripping this country apart. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/30 "2019-09-15T15:51:04Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s the fact that deranged psychopaths such as yourself exist that motivates the prudent to take reasonable precautions. I found a new best friend. Will you marry me? ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/31 "2019-09-15T15:52:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think worrying about far-fetched B-movie scenarios like this instead of the real problems we face every day is a sickness that is ripping this country apart. Well I think you’re just as complicit as me, but your deflection is very well noted. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/32 "2019-09-15T15:56:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > How’s that going for you? > > And yet, there is that [pesky correlation](https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2017/november/god-gun-control-white-evangelicals-texas-church-shooting.html). > > Who is coming for you and your family that you are constantly living in fear of? You and your family is much more likely to be harmed by financial disaster related to catastrophic health issues and environmental impact than some imagined intruder. > What a lying, delusional sack of fucking bullshit. You and your guns against the government and its LOE and military? Quit stroking your AR-15; Wet dream over. > > They and you are wrong. > You know what’s becoming less and less popular?.. Fear of social progress and the clinging obsession with religion and guns. I fear no one because I have the means and the right to defend myself. My only fear is losing that right. And I’d argue that your “social progress” is losing ground, big time, and you’re views are more fringe than mine. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/33 "2019-09-15T15:58:22Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > But it wouldn’t be. You’d have Waco’s and Ruby Ridges out the ass and the government turning on its own people, a constitutional crisis, and a very serious problem. > > Want to grab guns? Change the amendment the way it was intended. Can’t do that? You don’t have a suitable majority. > > You should look up “In common use at the time” Waco. Ruby Ridge. And you sitting in your basement clutching your Daisy instead actually doing anything close to the macho fantasies you envision. _If_ the simplistic “revolution” you drool about ever really happened, and you are asked afterward what you did, I doubt very much your answer(if you were capable of answering honestly) would be anything more than “I trolled message boards!”. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/34 "2019-09-15T15:58:45Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > I think if the government or the military were given orders to drive tanks through their home towns and raid their own people, most of those guns would probably end up pointing at the same targets as the citizens. And I’ll ask again, when has anything like this ever happened in American history? No, the Civil War was the American government putting down an insurrection, CotUS, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 15 To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; a Constitutional power of the government. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/35 "2019-09-15T16:02:24Z")
Oh fuck that shit. Who exactly do you intend to shoot? Who do you fantasize about blowing their brains out? People who don’t look like you? People who pray differently? You get this massive arsenal, surely you’re fantasizing about shooting somebody. You have a “right” to self defense with a weapon used by the military? No you fucking don’t. Do the world a favor and turn in your Dirty Harry fantasy toy collection before you hurt the grownups, or even worse, innocent children. Then grow the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/36 "2019-09-15T16:08:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Waco. > Ruby Ridge. > > And you sitting in your basement clutching your Daisy instead actually doing anything close to the macho fantasies you envision. _If_ the simplistic “revolution” you drool about ever really happened, and you are asked afterward what you did, I doubt very much your answer(if you were capable of answering honestly) would be anything more than “I trolled message boards!”. Take me completely out of the equation, use all the insults and ad-hom you wish, and it would still happen. It’s got nothing to do with me. I could die right now and it would still happen. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/37 "2019-09-15T16:11:48Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > And I’ll ask again, when has anything like this ever happened in American history? > No, the Civil War was the American government putting down an insurrection, > > CotUS, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 15 > > To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; > > a Constitutional power of the government. > > CMC fnord! Go with that, then. Military swears an oath to defend the constitution, is majority right wing, and trained. Try turning them on their own families and see how that works out. Get pissy if you want, doesn’t change the scope of the point. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/38 "2019-09-15T16:14:59Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > How very true Allesan. > > But more to my point when in American history did having power over the government actually require being armed? > > CMC fnord! From 1775-1783. The Americans had made many attempts to exert some power over their government prior to open rebellion, but those Brits who were in the governing business were mainly interested in securing their empire and milking their colonies for all they were worth. One thing many Americans don’t realize is just how well our revolution went. I’m certainly not going to romanticize it, but when I think over other revolutions, like Mexico, ours wasn’t nearly as ugly as it could have been. I think that’s shaped how we view revolutions today. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/39 "2019-09-15T16:15:16Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Go with that, then. Military swears an oath to defend the constitution, is majority right wing, and trained. Try turning them on their own families and see how that works out. > > Get pissy if you want, doesn’t change the scope of the point. More right wing whackadoodle delusion. Oh yes, the military is all on your side. They all interpret the constitution exactly as you do. Exactly the thoughts of the Waco whackos who died spouting the same nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/40 "2019-09-15T16:16:52Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Oh fuck that shit. Who exactly do you intend to shoot? Who do you fantasize about blowing their brains out? People who don’t look like you? People who pray differently? You get this massive arsenal, surely you’re fantasizing about shooting somebody. You have a “right” to self defense with a weapon used by the military? No you fucking don’t. Do the world a favor and turn in your Dirty Harry fantasy toy collection before you hurt the grownups, or even worse, innocent children. Then grow the fuck up. Yep, that’ll help. Have a complete, spittle-laden meltdown about a citizen exercising his rights. When you’re done, wipe off your monitor, catch your breath, and realize that we do, in fact, have these rights, and that these rifles have never been used in the military. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259.md?page=3)