# Will this election also be decided by the perverse American fetish for GUNS? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259 "2019-09-15T09:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/121 "2019-09-17T01:00:25Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Right… it’s the right that equates the 1st amendment and the concept of freedom of speech with hate speech. It’s the right that thinks people should have their wealth and income confiscated to buy votes. It’s the right that believes the 1st, 2nd, 9th, and 10th amendments aren’t real. > > /sarcasm off It’s the Right that thinks Nazi Germany is the correct way to run a nation, and would happily eliminate the entire Constitution and kill everyone on the planet who isn’t a white right wing straight Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/122 "2019-09-17T01:05:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Of course. But it seems strange to me for someone to scream “2nd Amendment!” but yet casually disregard the “shall not be infringed” part. Weapons that are in common use at the time are rifles. A single man in any militia or army carries a rifle, all throughout history up to and including today - not a nuke, tank, or predator drone. Not sure how you find this strange or confusing. > [@echoreply](#): > > I’ve always been partial to the idea of mandatory liability insurance for guns, just like we have for cars. That certainly isn’t perfect, as even the largest rifles are still tiny, and can be hidden away much easier than a car. But anybody who wants to carry would need to show insurance when subjected to white-man stop and frisk. Let the free market determine each individual’s risk. > > Just like with cars, this could take into account type of ammunition, intended use, and all of that. All of the sudden a pump shotgun loaded with bean bags, rock salt, or even bird shot, might seem like a much more sane home defense weapon than a semi-automatic rifle with flash suppressor, 30 round magazine, and steel jacketed bullets. I mean, I assume you’re defending against a druggie trying to steal your Oxy, not a well armed squad of Eastern block ex-military types wearing body armor who are breaking into suburban homes to steal Oxy. > > Of course, in my fantasy world, all guns would magically be replaced by walkie-talkies. The amendment is not written to protect a persons right to defend themselves, it’s to resist tyranny. And requiring mandatory liability insurance to exercise a right would negatively effect people of color. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > All of them, eventually. > > It’s a multi generational goal so don’t ask every few months, “How’s that ban going for you?” It took many years to get to where we are now. It will take many years to undo it. At least you say out loud what we’ve been saying you guys want to do all along. I’ll give you that. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/123 "2019-09-17T01:11:20Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s strange that the left is anti almost every part of the constitution at this point. Even the 1st amendment is not safe. Shocking isn’t it? “Social Progress” just seems to be a euphemism for “ban all the things”. It’s all about control. They honestly can’t see that they are the fascists. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/124 "2019-09-17T01:16:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s the Right that thinks Nazi Germany is the correct way to run a nation, and would happily eliminate the entire Constitution and kill everyone on the planet who isn’t a white right wing straight Christian. Oh goodie, we are doing that thing where we equate extremes. That’s my favorite. The left has killed so many millions and millions and millions of people throughout history - up to and including today - through murder, starvation, genocide, and corruption that it makes the right look like saints, but the right are the baddies who need to be ridiculed. And let’s not forget that the Nazis were socialists. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/125 "2019-09-17T01:36:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s the Right that thinks Nazi Germany is the correct way to run a nation, and would happily eliminate the entire Constitution and kill everyone on the planet who isn’t a white right wing straight Christian. That’s a bit of hyperbole. We’d keep the constitution. Of course, that’ll literally be taken literally. I know at least a few Republicans and not one of them wants to kill anyone. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/126 "2019-09-17T03:04:32Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > {…} And let’s not forget that the Nazis were socialists. Ooohh, I’ve been waiting for this, BINGO! What do I win? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/127 "2019-09-17T04:48:53Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It won’t be decided by guns. Gun nuts always vote and they always vote Republican. That isn’t going to change. If Beto is nominated and runs on taking away AK47s, the gun nuts will vote for the Orange Rapist. Just like they would no matter who the Democrats nominated. so how do you define a gun nut? Is it any gun owner? I collect and make guns as a hobby; my collection is about 50 or so. Does this make me a nut? I am not a single issue voter. Democrats and Republicans get my vote depending on their stance on various issues. I feel that the local and state level elections affect me more than the federal elections. Ever heard of the anti-gun GOP and the blue-dog Democrat? Probably not, but they do exist. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > I feel disgust for gun nuts. The one issue that matters to them most, the one hill they want to die on, is to preserve their ability to possess the means to slaughter other humans. They’re pathetic pieces of shit and the blood of those killed in churches and high schools and concerts is on their hands. Fuck every single one of them in the ass with a red hot poker. That attitude is going to make you an honorary “gun nut”, whatever that is. How does your desire to torture people, you don’t like, to death, compare with those who indulge in a hobby that is statistically very unlikely to hurt anyone? ---
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/128 "2019-09-17T05:07:30Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > Because the ATF does \*exactly \*this for things like short barreled rifles and submachine guns. Both of which were legal everywhere at one point in time. Actually SBR’s and MG’s are legal throughout the USA. In the states that require a license, the BATFE issues one on demand to anyone who fills out the paperwork properly. The rest of the states either require the tax stamp or do not regulate them much at all. ---
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/129 "2019-09-17T05:28:48Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Plan on buying the right compressor specifically for PCP. The one to put air in tires will not work. The special hand pump is fine if you really want some exercise. > > I’ve got about $1000 invested in my PCP, but it costs maybe 2 cents to shoot. If you get one, you will learn a lot about it’s ammo/pellets. That’s the secret. I use a scuba tank and adapters for my PCP Anschutz 8001’s and T200’s. The FWB 300S is a springer, my FWB 600 is a single stroke pneumatic. Pricey to buy, cheap to shoot. I use RWS Diabolo for the new shooters, the experienced shooters on the team use RWS R-10 or Meisterkugeln. ---
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/130 "2019-09-17T05:51:02Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Assault weapons were already banned under Clinton. If it was constitutional then, I can’t see why it wouldn’t be now. Surely you understand that the AWB of 1994 was for the most part, a ban in name only. No guns were confiscated, as they were grandfathered in. Manufacturers modified their semi-auto rifles to ensure they remained legal. The number of semi-auto guns in civilian hands actually went way up during those years. The only real change was that “pre-ban” rifles sold for higher prices than the ones made between 1994-2004. But now the words confiscate are being thrown around. While it seems to be fashionable on this forum to paint all gun owners with the same brush, the vast majority of semi-auto rifle owners are not criminals. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/131 "2019-09-17T05:53:59Z")
> [@Observations of the 3rd Democratic Debate](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/observations-of-the-3rd-democratic-debate/840136/193): > > Darn right. We need to go back to bows and arrows for hunting. No crossbows or them newfangled compound bows either. Longbows forever!:dubious: Why not use heat-seeking missiles, if you can afford them? Sure they’d mess up the corpse, but you weren’t going to eat the meat anyway. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/132 "2019-09-17T05:56:38Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > … constitutionally protected … Couldn’t find a ten-year old to explain OP to you? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/133 "2019-09-17T06:02:04Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > White people demanding guns to protect themselves from a system of government designed to enrich white people is the definition of America. I’d make this my .sig, but that would likely draw a Warning. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/134 "2019-09-17T06:06:42Z")
@ **Lumpy** — No answer? > [@septimus](#): > > I _DO_ agree with you! I really wish the D’s would de-emphasize guns. The guns themselves are a small problem; they just annoy rationalists like myself because they epitomize American stupidity. > > I wonder if _YOU_ would agree with _ME_? That only strange stupidity could cause someone to treat a possible ban of the AK-47 as more important than the myriads of damage Donald Trump is doing? So, **Lumpy** : Does even the whisper of gun control outweigh all the harm Trump is doing in your view? Or do you disagree with the premise, and join with the millions who think Donald Trump is the best President since Abe Lincoln? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/135 "2019-09-17T06:18:27Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > And let’s not forget that the Nazis were socialists. [Bullshit](http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm) Besides, by that logic, the Soviet Union was conservative, because they called themselves a Republic. Hell, North Korea calls itself a democracy! Names can be [deceptive](https://www.indy100.com/article/nazi-socialist-right-wing-white-supremacists-history-twitter-mikestuchbery-7900001). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/136 "2019-09-17T08:22:17Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’d make this my .sig, but that would likely draw a Warning. Don’t see how they could justify a warning, when they’re happy to have pro-gun nut propaganda threads outside the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/137 "2019-09-17T08:22:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > [Bullshit](http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm) > Besides, by that logic, the Soviet Union was conservative, because they called themselves a Republic. > > Hell, North Korea calls itself a democracy! Names can be [deceptive](https://www.indy100.com/article/nazi-socialist-right-wing-white-supremacists-history-twitter-mikestuchbery-7900001). Being a republic doesn’t make anything conservative or murderously left. The murderous left ideology does that by itself. Are you trying to somehow argue that the lefty body count is somehow not what it is? Everyone seems to think that “the right” is so dangerous when in actuality the left is still to this day stacking bodies like it’s their job. ---
**Author:** ![Annoyed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f04885/32.png) [@Annoyed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoyed)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/138 "2019-09-17T08:29:08Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > @ **Lumpy** — No answer? > So, **Lumpy** : Does even the whisper of gun control outweigh all the harm Trump is doing in your view? > > Or do you disagree with the premise, and join with the millions who think Donald Trump is the best President since Abe Lincoln? The whole premise of your question is a fallacy. There is not “a whisper” of gun control, and just because people vote Trump doesn’t mean they think he’s the best thing since Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/139 "2019-09-17T09:17:15Z")
NOTICE: I will be away from my desk for several days. If you have urgent questions, please get them to me within the next nine hours. In my absence, I’ll refer you to Paul Krugman for questions about economics, and to Naomi Klein for questions about geopolitics. If you haven’t decided whom to support for the Nomination, I’m afraid I can’t help. I’m not sure anyone left on the stage can beat Donald Trump. ☹ > [@Annoyed](#): > > The whole premise of your question is a fallacy. Speak when you’re spoken to. See #132. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/140 "2019-09-17T13:36:07Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Weapons that are in common use at the time are rifles. A single man in any militia or army carries a rifle, all throughout history up to and including today - not a nuke, tank, or predator drone. Not sure how you find this strange or confusing. I’m not seeing the phrase “in common use at the time” in the Constitution anywhere. Can you point it out? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259.md?page=8)