# Will this election also be decided by the perverse American fetish for GUNS? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259 "2019-09-15T09:01:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/141 "2019-09-17T14:36:31Z")
> [@MartinLane](#): > > so how do you define a gun nut? Is it any gun owner? I collect and make guns as a hobby; my collection is about 50 or so. Does this make me a nut? I am not a single issue voter. Democrats and Republicans get my vote depending on their stance on various issues. Okay. Say a politician (D or R, per your stated agnosticism) is in alignment with your views on every issue you care about, except guns. He wants registration, background check, restrictions on type (assault style, etc) and magazine capacity, no CC, etc. Now are you a single issue voter? If so, you’ve just answered your own first question. > [@MartinLane](#): > > That attitude is going to make you an honorary “gun nut”, whatever that is. How does your desire to torture people, you don’t like, to death, compare with those who indulge in a hobby that is statistically very unlikely to hurt anyone? I’m pretty sure he was being hyperbolic about the red hot poker up the ass. But I get that if you think he was serious, you’d want to hang on to your guns, for protection. Statistics are tricky things. One might use them to conclude that with all these guns in America, it’s a wonder more people aren’t killed daily. Therefore, responsible gun ownership FTW! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/142 "2019-09-17T14:45:09Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > At least you say out loud what we’ve been saying you guys want to do all along. I’ll give you that. > [@Annoyed](#): > > It’s all about control. They honestly can’t see that they are the fascists. > [@Annoyed](#): > > And let’s not forget that the Nazis were socialists. You really are one of nature’s special idiots. Listen, I get that you’re annoyed with libruls. But honestly is short sighted, terrified and ignorant the way you want to get through life? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/143 "2019-09-17T14:47:23Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Being a republic doesn’t make anything conservative or murderously left. The murderous left ideology does that by itself. > > Are you trying to somehow argue that the lefty body count is somehow not what it is? > > Everyone seems to think that “the right” is so dangerous when in actuality the left is still to this day stacking bodies like it’s their job. Sorry, but Colonization is a capitalistic concept, and therefore all of the deaths and blood that resulted from the centuries of Colonization all over the Earth is on your side’s hands. Shove this talking point back up your ass please. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/144 "2019-09-17T15:13:52Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Shocking isn’t it? “Social Progress” just seems to be a euphemism for “ban all the things”. > > It’s all about control. They honestly can’t see that they are the fascists. Wow. Haven’t seen projection like that since the last IMAX I went to. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/145 "2019-09-17T16:34:26Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > Being a republic doesn’t make anything conservative or murderously left. The murderous left ideology does that by itself. > > Are you trying to somehow argue that the lefty body count is somehow not what it is? > > Everyone seems to think that “the right” is so dangerous when in actuality the left is still to this day stacking bodies like it’s their job. Yawn, this is a really boring debate. The real answer is that extremism and of any political view along with dictatorship can lead to widespread death and destruction. Also trying to pigeon hole historical ideologies into 21st century left versus right is pointless. Should the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge be blamed on the Democrats because they believed in Collectivism, or should they be blamed on the Republicans because they were anti-intellectual? The answer is neither. The Khmer Rouge’s atrocities should be blamed on the Khmer Rouge’s ideologies which are specific to them. So unless neo Khmer Rougers are marching down American streets and one party or another offers support for their cause, they are pretty much irrelevant to our current situation. The question that we should be asking is right here and now in the United states, which party seems to be fostering the most violent extremists and which party seems to believe that support a executive that is above the law and not subject to any checks on its power. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/146 "2019-09-17T18:42:46Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Yawn, this is a really boring debate. > > The real answer is that extremism and of any political view along with dictatorship can lead to widespread death and destruction. Also trying to pigeon hole historical ideologies into 21st century left versus right is pointless. Should the atrocities of the Khmer Rouge be blamed on the Democrats because they believed in Collectivism, or should they be blamed on the Republicans because they were anti-intellectual? The answer is neither. The Khmer Rouge’s atrocities should be blamed on the Khmer Rouge’s ideologies which are specific to them. So unless neo Khmer Rougers are marching down American streets and one party or another offers support for their cause, they are pretty much irrelevant to our current situation. > > The question that we should be asking is right here and now in the United states, which party seems to be fostering the most violent extremists and which party seems to believe that support a executive that is above the law and not subject to any checks on its power. What are you doing being sensible in the pit? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/147 "2019-09-17T19:04:12Z")
Just want to say the 2nd Amendment was definitely not drafted for the purpose of “resisting tyranny.” The Founders were not devising the means to overthrow the government they were founding. The militias were meant for purposes like fending off a Spanish invasion, fighting Indians and oppressing slaves. They weren’t a standing army so that people could spend most of their time farming &etc. Not insurrection. Glad we cleared that up. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/148 "2019-09-17T19:43:04Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > @ **Lumpy** — No answer? > So, **Lumpy** : Does even the whisper of gun control outweigh all the harm Trump is doing in your view? > > Or do you disagree with the premise, and join with the millions who think Donald Trump is the best President since Abe Lincoln? Hell no, Trump is a terrible president. But once something is banned it stays illegal by sheer inertia, against all but the most overwhelming counter-movement. Would anyone from 1970 onward have voted to make marijuana illegal if it hadn’t been already? The smartest thing pro-gun people ever did was force a sunset clause into the Assault Weapon Ban; otherwise a law so worthless that it can’t get renewed would stay on the books forever. [This says it all better than I could.](https://extranewsfeed.com/i-cant-stand-donald-trump-but-i-m-voting-for-him-d4738ee5812e) ---
**Author:** ![Brayne\_Ded](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Brayne\_Ded](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brayne_Ded)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/149 "2019-09-17T19:57:02Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > You’ve built yourself a pretty amusing caricature in that little noggin of yours. > > I could build the same caricature about your worst kind of people and use that as justification to declare them mentally ill too (which they probably would be in all fairness) but that would be stupid. Annoyed, you’re the cartoon figure. NRA sub paid up? And for all you honest to God gun nuts: target rifles, hunting rifles and shotguns are one thing. They have their uses. Military-grade equipment should be kept to then military. Do please tell me why you need an assault rifle with a 30 round magazine? To defend your home? Against what? You don’t need that sort of firepower to see off an intruder or two. And the availability of such weapons means that inevitably some nut gets hold of one or more and goes on a rampage. Any politician calling for all guns to be confiscated can kiss his career goodbye. But the issue is registration. Insist that all guns are registered. Insist that gun owners have permits, and these are only given out if you can be certain that the applicant is not a wild-eyed maniac. That won’t work?True, it won’t work quickly. it also won;t work unless all the states have the same legislation, otherwise you just get cross-border trading. A European take on this: the break-up of the Soviet Union meant that a lot of miliitary small arms got loose and complicated the work of the police. The well dressed bank robber no longer has an old revolver or a shotgun, but an AK-47. But, slowly, the number of such guns appears to be being reduced as they get found and confiscated. Don’t expect things to happen overnight. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Kearsen1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen1)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/150 "2019-09-17T20:14:05Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You are correct. A better analogy would be if there was an amendment to protect his right to race his car on the street, and he was allowed to race not just _any_ car, but a special car built with rotating steel knives coming out of the hubcaps that were specifically designed to kill as many random pedestrians on the sidewalk as possible. > > His special right to race cars on the street should not be restricted, just because he’s racing a special car designed to kill as many people as possible. When you guys go all deranged hyperbole about guns, it makes me laugh! Keep up the comedic relief ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/151 "2019-09-17T20:21:09Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Just want to say the 2nd Amendment was definitely not drafted for the purpose of “resisting tyranny.” The Founders were not devising the means to overthrow the government they were founding. The militias were meant for purposes like fending off a Spanish invasion, fighting Indians and oppressing slaves. They weren’t a standing army so that people could spend most of their time farming &etc. > > Not insurrection. > > Glad we cleared that up. Then why do so many of the Federalist Papers specifically mention the ability of the militia to overthrow a tyrannical government if necessary? And why do so many of the Anti-Federalist papers harp on provisions of the proposed constitution that they feared might enable that resistance to be neutralized? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/152 "2019-09-17T20:52:13Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Then why do so many of the Federalist Papers specifically mention the ability of the militia to overthrow a tyrannical government if necessary? They had just done so. It was kinda on their minds. Do please note that anonymous commentary has no legal status, but the Constitution itself does, notably Article 1, Section 8, Clause 15: “(Congress shall have the Power) To provide for the calling of the militia to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrections, and repel invasions.” See? They \*told \*you what it’s for. It’s right there. \*Suppress \*insurrections. Not be them, \*suppress \*them. But you knew that already, didn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/153 "2019-09-17T21:08:19Z")
Perhaps the words of the late Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Warren Burger, could shed some light here. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Eya_k4P-iEo/maxresdefault.jpg "Warren Burger "2nd Amendment Fraud" - 1991 PBS News Hour") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eya_k4P-iEo) ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/154 "2019-09-17T21:39:49Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Then why do so many of the Federalist Papers specifically mention the ability of the militia to overthrow a tyrannical government if necessary? Why does the Constitution expressly authorize the president to command the militia? ---
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/155 "2019-09-17T21:44:41Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Okay. Say a politician (D or R, per your stated agnosticism) is in alignment with your views on every issue you care about, except guns. He wants registration, background check, restrictions on type (assault style, etc) and magazine capacity, no CC, etc. Now are you a single issue voter? If so, you’ve just answered your own first question. Still not a single issue voter. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m pretty sure he was being hyperbolic about the red hot poker up the ass. But I get that if you think he was serious, you’d want to hang on to your guns, for protection. He was using the same kind of extreme language as other extremists. > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Statistics are tricky things. One might use them to conclude that with all these guns in America, it’s a wonder more people aren’t killed daily. Therefore, responsible gun ownership FTW! I was going to say, “don’t be so quick with the broad brush”. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/156 "2019-09-17T21:46:15Z")
> [@Kearsen1](#): > > When you guys go all deranged hyperbole about guns, it makes me laugh! Keep up the comedic relief I know, guns never hurt anybody! ---
**Author:** ![sambucus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e99b99/32.png) [@sambucus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sambucus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/157 "2019-09-17T22:25:08Z")
I am a gun owner for over 50 years. I own many military guns (most near or over 100 years old). I am (now) a liberal who would never, ever, ever vote Republican again. The NRA (I dropped my membership when Wayne LaPierre took over) are a bunch of Russian stooges. I do own an AR-15 (they are fun). All of that said… I am not a one-issue voter. I think we can have a discussion about all of this and meet in the middle (I remember compromise, because I am old). So to the original premise… Passion for GUNS should not be a factor. The mendacity of Orange Julius Caesar is part of a national emergency. And I wont “gun vote” if it means keeping that idiot in office. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/158 "2019-09-17T22:35:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You really are one of nature’s special idiots. Special? His kind are pretty thick on the ground these days, actually. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/159 "2019-09-17T22:40:36Z")
> [@MartinLane](#): > > He was using the same kind of extreme language as other extremists. I’ll just assume you’re aware how blisteringly stupid this is. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259/160 "2019-09-17T22:42:50Z")
> [@Annoyed](#): > > And let’s not forget that the Nazis were socialists. No, you worthless torture-supporting buffoon, Nazis were not socialists. Know what the Nazis did after gaining power? They imprisoned the Communists and the Social Democrats who stood against them. Your knowledge of Nazi ideology probably starts and stops at the fact they have Socialist in their name. That is the basis for your argument. I know it because every other right-wing lowlife who claims Nazis were socialists does so on that basis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-election-also-be-decided-by-the-perverse-american-fetish-for-guns/840259.md?page=9)