# Will this offensive ad by a Hispanic group hurt or help Trump more? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698 "2015-11-05T12:37:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/81 "2015-11-06T14:47:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the major disagreement will be on what Trump stands for. I doubt more than a very small percentage think he stands for “success, jobs, the rule of law”… based on his very low favorables with Hispanics, I think to many of them he may stand for bigotry and buffoonery. Yeah, but he’ll never get those. But he might get the smart ones. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/82 "2015-11-06T14:49:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Please tell me you’re joking. How about you tell me how he is not: 1. successful 2. has not created thousands of jobs and has made bringing jobs back to the U.S. a big part of his platform 3. for the rule of law ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/83 "2015-11-06T15:08:39Z")
He leveraged inherited wealth into four bankruptcies. That’s basically a textbook example of failure. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/84 "2015-11-06T15:09:17Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Step 2 is the assessment of what they really want in life for themselves and their children. Is that picture more closely aligned with the things that Trump stands for—success, jobs, the rule of law—or more aligned with people who exploit children and put foul language into their mouths in order to _stupidly_ make a political point? > > I think quite a few will come out on the side of what Trump stands for as opposed to crass points made in a disgusting video. Whereas I imagine that people are, generally, way smarter than that. I imagine that most people are capable of at least some measure of nuanced thought, and that they do not quite so readily commit the fallacy of the excluded middle. I imagine that most folks - Latino or non-Latino, Hispanic or non-Hispanic - realise that, in reality, the choice isn’t between on one hand Mr. Trump, and on the other hand “people who exploit children and put foul language into their mouths.” I imagine that most people easily realise - as it seems that you do not - that, when it all comes down to it, the choice is between any number of politicians, all of whom should be judged on their own positions, merits, virtues, vices and stupidities, rather than on the language and the tactics of a vanishingly small number of their detractors. But let’s say that I am wrong. Let’s say that, as soon as someone sees this video, he or she immediately falls sway to the mysterious delusion that the choice really _is_ between Mr. Trump and “people who exploit children and put foul language into their mouths.” Even so: Do you really expect it to reach out to so many people that this will have a statistically significant effect on the primaries - let alone the actual election? I sure don’t. In fact, I put it to you, Sir, that this is but a mere blip, a hype, a fleeting outrage, a trifle, a vacuous hue and cry, a weak and distant “[bloggbävning](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/03/ogooglebar-and-14-other-swedish-words-we-should-incorporate-into-english-immediately/274383/)”, here today and gone tomorrow. Come election day, few but you will remember, and fewer still will care. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/85 "2015-11-06T15:52:50Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > How about you tell me how he is not: > > 1. successful He’s a very successful promoter, especially of himself. He’s been an utter failure at many other things, such as his silly birtherism investigations. > [@](#): > > 1. has not created thousands of jobs and has made bringing jobs back to the U.S. a big part of his platform He’s rich and spent a lot of money, so he’s created jobs. He’s also fired a whole lot of people (that was kind of his thing for a while). > [@](#): > > 1. for the rule of law Considering his birtherism, his many ridiculous lawsuits, his open claims of manipulating politicians, and many other episodes of buffoonery, I think he’s more for manipulation and exploitation of laws rather than their rule. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/86 "2015-11-06T16:09:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > He leveraged inherited wealth into four bankruptcies. That’s basically a textbook example of failure. And jobs? We’re talking about a man whose catchphrase is, “You’re fired.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/87 "2015-11-06T16:13:39Z")
The central problem with this theory (and there are many, many problems) is that magellan imagines only two possibilities: 1. Support for the makers of the ad, or 2. Support for Trump. I certainly believe there are Hispanic Americans who will support conservative candidates, whether Bush!, Rubio, or another member of the Insane Clown Posse. There may even be some who are dumb enough to vote Republican because they don’t like potty-mouthed children, although I strongly doubt that. But the idea that someone would support the biggest racist in a field of racists, based on said potty-mouthed children? Uh, no. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/88 "2015-11-06T17:25:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The central problem with this theory (and there are many, many problems) is that magellan imagines only two possibilities: > > 1. Support for the makers of the ad, or > 2. Support for Trump. > > I certainly believe there are Hispanic Americans who will support conservative candidates, whether Bush!, Rubio, or another member of the Insane Clown Posse. There may even be some who are dumb enough to vote Republican because they don’t like potty-mouthed children, although I strongly doubt that. > > But the idea that someone would support the biggest racist in a field of racists, based on said potty-mouthed children? Uh, no. Thanks for the perfect example of the use of “racist” as begging the question. You and others may feel comfortable because he said things you don’t like about race (talk about a desire to ignore nuance), but many do not. And I have no idea why you think that I think that support for Trump or the douchebags who made the video is binary. It’s but one data point. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/89 "2015-11-06T17:28:23Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Whereas I imagine that people are, generally, way smarter than that. > > I imagine that most people are capable of at least some measure of nuanced thought, and that they do not quite so readily commit the fallacy of the excluded middle. > > I imagine that most folks - Latino or non-Latino, Hispanic or non-Hispanic - realise that, in reality, the choice isn’t between on one hand Mr. Trump, and on the other hand “people who exploit children and put foul language into their mouths.” > > I imagine that most people easily realise - as it seems that you do not - that, when it all comes down to it, the choice is between any number of politicians, all of whom should be judged on their own positions, merits, virtues, vices and stupidities, rather than on the language and the tactics of a vanishingly small number of their detractors. > > But let’s say that I am wrong. > > Let’s say that, as soon as someone sees this video, he or she immediately falls sway to the mysterious delusion that the choice really _is_ between Mr. Trump and “people who exploit children and put foul language into their mouths.” > > Even so: Do you really expect it to reach out to so many people that this will have a statistically significant effect on the primaries - let alone the actual election? I sure don’t. > > In fact, I put it to you, Sir, that this is but a mere blip, a hype, a fleeting outrage, a trifle, a vacuous hue and cry, a weak and distant “[bloggbävning](http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/03/ogooglebar-and-14-other-swedish-words-we-should-incorporate-into-english-immediately/274383/)”, here today and gone tomorrow. > > Come election day, few but you will remember, and fewer still will care. Well, Im confuse that someone who knows what the excluded middle is would well, exclude it. And I agree with most of what you wrote. But when you try to imply that it is my position that this video will be some magical toggle switch for people, you exclude an awful, awful lot. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/90 "2015-11-06T17:51:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Thanks for the perfect example of the use of “racist” as begging the question. You and others may feel comfortable because he said things you don’t like about race (talk about a desire to ignore nuance), but many do not. You’re most welcome! That’s not what it was, of course, but I’m happy that you’re happy. > [@](#): > > And I have no idea why you think that I think that support for Trump or the douchebags who made the video is binary. Here’s why: > [@Steken](#): > > 1. “Swearing children in a political ad? What an outrage!” > 2. ??? > 3. “Trump 2016!” > > What is step 2? > [@magellan01](#): > > Step 2 is the assessment of what they really want in life for themselves and their children. Is that picture more closely aligned with the things that Trump stands for—success, jobs, the rule of law—or more aligned with people who exploit children and put foul language into their mouths in order to _stupidly_ make a political point? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/91 "2015-11-06T18:22:57Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Please tell me you’re joking. No, he’s right. If success, job creation and the rule of law happen to coincide with his Presidency, Trump will probably allow it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/92 "2015-11-06T18:27:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > You’re most welcome! That’s not what it was, of course, but I’m happy that you’re happy. > > Here’s why: Oh, so you just imagined that I thought it was binary. Thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/93 "2015-11-06T18:38:30Z")
No, he just read where you presented the options as binary. You can get pissy about other people’s interpretation of your words, but you’re not allowed to be pissy about the words themselves. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > No, he’s right. If success, job creation and the rule of law happen to coincide with his Presidency, Trump will probably allow it. Ah, so he’s not \*against \*them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/94 "2015-11-06T20:08:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, so you just imagined that I thought it was binary. Thanks for the clarification. Heh. Whatever makes you happy, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/95 "2015-11-06T23:18:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Hey, I’m law abiding with good morals, and I don’t find anything remotely inappropriate about that video! Little kids swearing is hilarious and harmless fun. And Trump really is a pendejo. > > I don’t see the problem. …and thus you’re perfectly hunky-dory with [this](https://youtu.be/WYpko86x6GU). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2015, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/96 "2015-11-06T23:26:49Z")
So a six year-old girl said “fuck”. What’s the big deal? Did she spontaneously combust, or something? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/97 "2015-11-07T01:48:40Z")
I raised my daughters to curse sparingly. I myself avoid swearing unless there is actual injury or it is funny. The girls are classy, well educated young ladies who know when to say “fuck.” ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/98 "2015-11-07T02:36:58Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So a six year-old girl said “fuck”. > What’s the big deal? Did she spontaneously combust, or something? No. But it’s trashy. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/99 "2015-11-07T02:49:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > 1. for the rule of law As long as the law does not touch predatory, false institutions of higher education. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698/100 "2015-11-07T03:26:42Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > No. But it’s trashy. And Trump ain’t? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-this-offensive-ad-by-a-hispanic-group-hurt-or-help-trump-more/736698.md?page=6)