# Will Trump go all "Jim Jones"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 12, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463 "2019-04-12T22:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/121 "2019-04-15T23:54:29Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > For anyone interested …I very much doubt that anyone is interested in this any more, apart from you. But by all means, if you feel the need to keep on digging, keep on digging. > [@](#): > > Your interesting informational tidbit about how many comments you scrolled through does not modify the claim you make in the penultimate sentence. It reads to me like: > > ‘Do you know how many people on twitter suggested it? I did a half-assed search and I could only find one.’ Except I “didn’t do a half-assed search.” I spent about an hour scrolling through my twitter feed. Everybody I follow was talking about the fire. Nobody was suggesting we send in the water tankers. Until the President of the United States decided to share his opinion. Then people started talking about how deranged and bizzare that was. So “how it reads to you” is a very different thing to what I both actually wrote, and what I actually did. This is really starting to get embarrassing for you. I’m literally cringing on your behalf. You can stop now if you like. > [@](#): > > “well, here’s another one” is a perfectly reasonable rebuttal to your lone “fact”. Except that it isn’t. I’m glad to have cleared that up for you. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/122 "2019-04-15T23:55:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > From what I’ve seen, pretty much all of those opinions come from people that either don’t have any medical experience, or have not interacted with President Trump in any way that would provide them an opportunity for a real diagnosis, or both. Yeah, you’re pretty much spot on that I never put any value in those opinions. Wanna know a secret? I’m not a mechanic. Wanna know something else? If I see flames erupting from beneath the hood of a car, I’m going to feel confident in an armchair diagnosis that there’s something wrong with the engine. And this confidence comes despite the fact that I’m not a mechanic! Your argument that people have “not interacted” with Trump highlights how incredibly flimsy a curtain you’re trying to hide Trump behind. Trump is an _incredibly_ public figure. Between his prominent political position, frequent press interactions, and constant tweeting of every stream of consciousness in his coiffed head, he might be the most publicly exposed person on the _planet_. So when I hear you say we haven’t had enough contact with him to diagnose the flames blasting out from under the hood, what that really tells me is that you know damn well that he can’t withstand scrutiny, so you’re trying to dodge that by pretending that all scrutiny of this absurdly public person is inherently invalid for…reasons…that you can’t articulate…because they’re nonexistent. So yeah. We DO have a consensus that his brain is misfiring on at least half its cylinders, because if you didn’t think so too you wouldn’t attempt to use this flimsy fig leaf to shield his cognitive modesty. And now that we’re clear on that, can we get back on topic? This nonsense about you trying to defend his insanity is way more boring than wild and baseless speculation about a universe where he jumps the rails for once and all. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/123 "2019-04-15T23:56:08Z")
You have previously stated that you do not support Trump, HD. So why do you go to such lengths to defend him from the indefensible? This board exists to fight ignorance. And here you are, defending the President of the United States for being profoundly ignorant. You’re defending a man who has trouble speaking in compete sentences. Why this misplaced loyalty? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/124 "2019-04-16T00:03:45Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … So “how it reads to you” is a very different thing to what I both actually wrote, and what I actually did. This is really starting to get embarrassing for you. I’m literally cringing on your behalf. You can stop now if you like. … I’m good continuing. Whether you’re cringing, laughing, or hanging your head in shame at the embarrassingly-bad argument you’re making here is really irrelevant to me. What you literally wrote was: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > … Of course it was deranged. Of course it was bizarre. Do you know how many other people watching this logged onto twitter to suggest, with exclamation marks, to “send in the planes?” I scrolled through about a couple of hundred comments on the fire today. Only a single person made a call for sending in the tankers. That fact alone is objectively bizarre. The “objectively bizarre” “fact” that you refer to in the last sentence: what was it? Not, apparently, that President Trump was the only person who made a call for sending in tankers? Do you know what “objectively” means? Because now it sounds like you’re trying to say that the subjective nature of your personal review of some minuscule fraction of Twitter traffic should translate into something ‘objective’, which it does not. It’s meaningless. Virtually nobody cares what you looked at on Twitter, or didn’t look at. You made a claim that “Only a single person made a call for sending in the tankers” and that claim is “objectively” false. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/125 "2019-04-16T00:05:24Z")
> [@hurricaneditka](#): > > i’m good continuing. Whether you’re cringing, laughing, or hanging your head in shame at the embarrassingly-bad argument you’re making here is really irrelevant to me. > > What you literally wrote was: > > The “objectively bizarre” “fact” that you refer to in the last sentence: What was it? Not, apparently, that president trump was the only person who made a call for sending in tankers? Do you know what “objectively” means? Because now it sounds like you’re trying to say that the subjective nature of your personal review of some minuscule fraction of twitter traffic should translate into something ‘objective’, which it does not. It’s meaningless. Virtually nobody cares what you looked at on twitter, or didn’t look at. You made a claim that “only a single person made a call for sending in the tankers” and that claim is “objectively” false. …LOL 😃 Life’s too short man. Walk away. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/126 "2019-04-16T00:07:00Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > You have previously stated that you do not support Trump, HD. So why do you go to such lengths to defend him from the indefensible? > > This board exists to fight ignorance. And here you are, defending the President of the United States for being profoundly ignorant. You’re defending a man who has trouble speaking in compete sentences. > > Why this misplaced loyalty? Is it possible you’ve confused me with some other poster? I’ve not been shy about sharing the fact that I voted for President Trump and am generally glad that he’s the president rather than HRC. I don’t support 100% of everything he’s done, and some of his individual actions / decisions downright annoy / frustrate me, but if I’ve made some general statement to the effect that I “do not support Trump”, I can’t recall it. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/127 "2019-04-16T00:09:08Z")
“Going Jim Jones” would probably, in this case, involve the “football”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/128 "2019-04-16T00:10:36Z")
That “my dad was born in Germany” stuff is… something. Frightening or hilarious or both. More clearly amusing are the attempts to rationalize it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/129 "2019-04-16T00:12:31Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > “Going Jim Jones” would probably, in this case, involve the “football”. The OP gave several examples of what it meant that don’t involve nuclear weapons: > [@](#): > > Could he hole himself up in the West Wing with his henchmen, and hold out in a Waco-style siege? Could he incite his Twitter followers into armed revolt? Could he retreat to Mar-a-Lago with his devotees? I agree with **begbert2** (I think we agree on this at least) that none of that seems the least bit likely. Nuking someone just because he loses an election seems even less-so. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/130 "2019-04-16T00:12:50Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Here’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUPsNgmXR7M) video of him saying “oranges”. [Here’s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrIQGIS-mDo) video about his father, and the quote: HurricaneDitka, please explain how you support the leadership of the man in the link. If you have a moment more, some words clarifying the lack of senility would be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/131 "2019-04-16T00:13:42Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > My thinking is that the only such outcome that’s even remotely likely (that is, an outcome where he gets himself and/or a bunch of his followers killed through suicidal actions) would be if he announces that the political event that boots him from office (impeachment or losing re-election) is illegitimate, calls it an illegal attempt to oust him from office, and demands that his MAGAts come defend him from ousting with as many guns as they can carry. At which point a percentage of them comply, attempt to occupy the white house, and learn that the military is both not amused and better armed than they are, resulting in some portion of his rallied followers getting killed. The only way Trump is imperiled in this situation is if they somehow get close to him and he gets caught in the crossfire, or if he somehow gets caught up in the situation and grabs a gun and shoots at the military too. Trump already calls things that might challenge his presidency, such as the Mueller report, “illegal” and an “[attempted coup](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/10/trump-mueller-probe-attempted-coup-1264714)”, so it’s not unreasonable to surmise that he might say the same at other future times that his presidency may be threatened, such as an election, impeachment or end of his two-term limit. We already know from 2016 that he views elections as “rigged”, anyway. Alternative venues to the White House for some final conflagration would be Trump Tower and Mar-a-Lago. At 58-floors, Trump Tower would be quite a defensible location with commanding views - think the movie _Die Hard_. Mar-a-Lago seems like the more obvious analogue for the Jonestown compound, and the frequency with which Trump visits his “southern White House” suggests he views it as his retreat from the reality of life in Washington. So that would be the place I can most likely see Trump going “Jim Jones”, were he to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/132 "2019-04-16T01:13:14Z")
Good grief, Ditka. There is really no positive way to spin Trump’s latest nonsense to this: > [@](#): > > _Originally Tweeted by President Obama_ > > I’m still asking you to believe - not in my ability to bring about change, but in yours. I believe in change because I believe in you. That’s a short, succinct, wonderful, and uplifting message. In 26 words, well under the 240 character limit of Twitter, glorying in the optimism the man brought to public life, to the presidency, and to the country. That’s what I miss from the Obama years. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/133 "2019-04-16T01:17:56Z")
Ditka argues in support of people who make policy believing that science is for Democrats. Cite: [Science is "a Democrat thing": Mantra of the Trump administration revealed | Salon.com](https://www.salon.com/2019/04/10/science-is-a-democrat-thing-mantra-of-the-trump-administration-revealed/) ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/134 "2019-04-16T01:34:11Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > The speeches given by Donald Trump, at the rallies he regularly holds in front of his fans, are becoming more and more deranged and bizarre. I increasingly find myself being reminded of listening to the tape recordings made of Jim Jones amongst his devotees in Jonestown. Trump, too, has developed a strong, almost messianic, personality cult among his “base”, and one gets the impression that his followers would follow him to the end of the Earth (perhaps literally). > > While there is a possibility that Trump will become President-for-Life, the higher probability, from where we stand now, must surely be that one day he will be removed from office, through election defeat, two-term limit or impeachment. With other cults in history, there is often a friction point where the cultists’ world and the real world collide and things get real messy - Jim Jones with the Jonestown Massacre and David Koresh at Waco are a couple of examples that spring to mind. > > Do you think that such a point will happen with Trump? Trump is suspected to have acted with criminal conduct in many aspects of his life, both non-political and political. There are still many ongoing investigations into these areas, and he may face criminal charges when his presidency expires. If Trump feels the walls closing in - perhaps he knows he’s going to jail when his presidency ends - do you think he might, to use a phrase, “go loco”? Could he hole himself up in the West Wing with his henchmen, and hold out in a Waco-style siege? Could he incite his Twitter followers into armed revolt? Could he retreat to Mar-a-Lago with his devotees? Perhaps with vats full of Diet Coke…? In the short-term - the next 2-8 years - I’m a pessimist. Beyond that, I’m somewhat of an optimist in that i think people will eventually wise up and put an end to this shit. I do think that until/unless circumstances change dramatically, the only way he leaves is by losing a landslide election - and if he loses, God do I hope he loses in a landslide that is indisputable. If he were to lose in a tight race or were it to end in an EC “tie” and were he to lose in the House of Reps, it would be pandemonium. But if he’s in office for a 2nd term, I seriously doubt he’d be allowed to stay a third. It’s possible for a president to destroy some democracy for all and all democracy for some but not all democracy for all, and I suspect his policies will eventually be so costly that all will be confronted with reality. Unfortunately the damage that can be done between now and then is substantial, and some if it might be permanent. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/135 "2019-04-16T02:20:20Z")
Flying water tankers! Must act quickly! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/136 "2019-04-16T02:48:17Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Flying water tankers! > Must act quickly! How about we fill up a bunch of 737 MAX jetliners with water and crash them into Notre Dame? They’re just sitting around doing nothing anyway. Back to (ahem) the actual thread subject. Trump, for prtty much his entire adult life, has been all about avoiding personal discomfort as much as possible. Going all Jim Jones would result in a high risk of personal discomfort, so in my view there’s no way he’ll go the last mile no matter what his fortunes hold in the next few years. The most that’s likely to happen (and I in no way trivialize this) is that he says something on Twitter or in a speech that some mook interprets as a call to take out one or more prominent Democrats, at which point Trump a) emits a series of feverish tweets claiming that he never actually said that; and b) his army of ever-busy lawyers fire off a bunch of cease and desist letter threatening lawsuits to anyone who deigns to slander our noble President by claiming he might share some responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/137 "2019-04-16T07:07:28Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > But if he’s in office for a 2nd term, I seriously doubt he’d be allowed to stay a third. It’s possible for a president to destroy some democracy for all and all democracy for some but not all democracy for all, and I suspect his policies will eventually be so costly that all will be confronted with reality. Unfortunately the damage that can be done between now and then is substantial, and some if it might be permanent. He cannot even run for a third term. Hopefully, he won’t even finish his current term. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/138 "2019-04-16T07:16:27Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > HurricaneDitka, please explain how you support the leadership of the man in the link. If you have a moment more, some words clarifying the lack of senility would be appreciated. I’m guessing he is a single issue voter. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/139 "2019-04-16T10:22:42Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > He cannot even run for a third term. Hopefully, he won’t even finish his current term. Understood, but some people are talking about whether he would declare himself president for life, and while I am dead certain that he wants to remake the US government in his image, pulling off president-for-life is a stretch. He could probably make it so that he can strongly influence his successor. He could sow chaos in ways we might not be able to foresee. But I don’t quite see the US turning into Algeria, and even if it does, as the people there have shown, there comes a point when even in dictatorships, people can demand an ouster. But at the same time, let’s not kid ourselves: there’s risk that comes with protest. ---
**Author:** ![SOJA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SOJA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SOJA)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2019, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463/140 "2019-04-16T12:13:30Z")
One would hope so and take his supporters with him. They’d be cleansing the human species. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-go-all-jim-jones/832463.md?page=8)