# Will Trump Keep His Business Interests Separate from the Presidency? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 20, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600 "2016-11-20T22:35:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/101 "2016-11-24T11:36:12Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > So the media doesn’t favor Harold Gray, Bill Watterson, or Jef Mallett? Okay, that took me a moment but I applaud you for it. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/102 "2016-11-24T14:43:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Perhaps he did think of it before running and concluded that no law existed to require a blind trust, so he wasn’t going to do it. Personally, I hold the president to a higher standard than “there’s no law against it”, but YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/103 "2016-11-24T14:56:37Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Personally, I hold the president to a higher standard than “there’s no law against it”, but YMMV. Lately I’ve been seeing and hearing the old refrain that sounds too much like “it isn’t illegal if the president does it” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/104 "2016-11-24T15:01:31Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > My opinion at the minute is that he will not make it far into a term. There is too much wrong here. He doesn’t seem to want the actual responsibilities, anyway. He never planned on committing himself to this and i’m sure he wants out. > > Why didn’t the media cover this in the runup so that we could have avoided this? Anyone could have seen this, but they were all shouted down by the whiners and partisans. They were simply cowed by ceaseless whining from completely faithless liars. I’m cynical and I think it’s far worse than just that. They wanted an exciting and close “horse race”. So, in order to do that they had to go easy on him, hammer Clinton, treat his babble as “news” instead of calling him on ALL his lies and bullshit, while going after her on non-existent “scandals”. And then there is money - money of the owners with an agenda, and the money of rich benefactorsand agitators with agendas. Almost forgot… and then there are the Nazi “news” outlets of Breibart and infoWars, which were being treated as if they were legit… and the assholes who read and believe all that crap. In short, count them as being among the faithless liars. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/105 "2016-11-24T15:04:32Z")
AND the so called legit “news” agencies that reported the shit from Breibart and InfoWars and Nazi tweets as if they were true. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/106 "2016-11-24T15:10:54Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Nope. ^ This. …And the profits he’ll make off of his Trump Brand Insider Trading will be YU-uuuge…! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/107 "2016-11-24T16:32:29Z")
Maybe a true “blind trust” isn’t possible-I don’t know for sure. What would make me more comfortable is if he did these two things: 1. Forbade anyone directly associated with his companies from being a part of his White House, even on a consulting basis, and 2. Took no actions that directly benefitted his holdings. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/108 "2016-11-24T19:27:24Z")
Is it wrong to want to see the U.S. President in bankruptcy court, and I mean in a really big way - not some petty failed casino but if, say, all his Chinese creditors called in at once and all his properties in China nationalized in retaliation because Congress passes a tough trade bill and overrides his veto? But for the global economic impact, I quite enjoy the notion. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/109 "2016-11-25T17:28:23Z")
Here’s how it’s gonna work. George Washington Plunkitt lives–and he’s gonna be President! [Donald Trump’s Revival of ‘Honest Graft’](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/donald-trumps-case-for-honest-graft/508706/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAtlantic+%28The+Atlantic+-+Master+Feed%29) > [@](#): > > “In theory,” Donald Trump told The New York Times on Tuesday, “I could run my business perfectly, and then run the country perfectly.” > > That particular theory has a pedigree, and a specific name. It was popularized more than a century ago by George Washington Plunkitt, another flamboyant New York businessman and politician. He dubbed it “honest graft.” > > I thought of Plunkitt—a leader of New York’s Democratic political machine, Tammany Hall, in the late 19th century—as I read the transcript of Trump’s fascinating, rambling conversation with the Times. Trump seemed not just unconcerned about the potential for conflicts, but actually mystified by the notion that his conduct might be problematic. His questioners seemed equally baffled by his lack of concern. And that disconnect suggests that they’re not just arguing about specific acts, but about two very different theories of government, in ways that recall the politics of Plunkitt’s day. > … > “Nobody thinks of drawin’ the distinction between honest graft and dishonest graft,” Plunkitt said. “There’s all the difference in the world between the two.” He had no patience, of course, for dishonest graft—the embezzlement of public funds, the abuse of power for blackmail—which pitted politicians against the interests of the people. But that, he insisted, was the opposite of the honest graft he practiced, which helped guarantee of good government and the smooth functioning of American democracy. A politician who is loyal to his friends, serves the public, and profits from his service as a result? His interests, Plunkitt argued, are perfectly aligned—unlike those of politicians who advance only their own self-interest, or are loyal to lofty ideals, with little regard for others. > … > His thoughts on politics were recorded by the journalist William Riordan, with a little embellishment, and popularized as _Plunkitt of Tammany Hall_. It’s still in print. When I assigned it in college courses, students were frequently horrified—but then they struggled to explain just why he was wrong. It’s a challenge Trump may now pose to those Americans who disapprove of his approach to potential conflicts of interest. But Plunkitt’s political success, like Trump’s, is also a reminder that many other Americans have always found this brand of politics compelling. > … ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/110 "2016-11-25T19:48:39Z")
I can sort-of see that value of so-called “honest graft” in the sense of the city needs a new road or a new bridge and though some wheels might get greased to speed the process along, the end result is the city gets that road or bridge, and it’s sufficiently well built to be useful for decades. Compare that to straight-up parasitism, where lots of people are taking a cut and _nothing_ of lasting value is being built. I’m not personally sure where Trump’s building projects would be - are they generally considered urban improvements made possible by his involvement? Does he play some creative role in their design, or is he more of a "make it bigger and shinier!"kind of guy? Have any of his projects been considered revolutionary, in that they helped advance or showcase the sciences of engineering or architecture? I find I have a pretty good tolerance for cutting corners in the name of getting things done, and I could understand the Clintons maintaining their own e-mail server if that made things easier for them _as they were getting things done_. In the interest of fairness, I’m willing to cut Trump some slack on this, but he going to have to produce results, and lasting results at that. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/111 "2016-11-25T22:28:13Z")
[Secret Service considering renting a floor at Trump Tower to protect future first family.](http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/25/politics/secret-service-trump-tower/) > [@](#): > > The US Secret Service is considering renting one floor in Trump Tower to protect President-elect Donald Trump and his family by turning it into a 24-7 command post, a law enforcement official told CNN Friday. > According to Jared Horowitz, who is with Newmark Grubb Knight Frank and responsible for available commercial space at Trump Tower, the floors available to rent with the average floor office space running between 13,500 square feet to 15,500 square feet cost about $1.5 million a year. So the Secret Service winds up paying Trump to protect him at home. No way he’s going to stay in the White House now. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/112 "2016-11-25T23:30:38Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Personally, I hold the president to a higher standard than “there’s no law against it”, but YMMV. My mileage depends upon the specific question being asked. The general approach surrounding this issue has been to hint that Trump’s statement evoke’s Nixon’s more blanket claim that the President could evade the law. Even Nixon was not making a claim that no law ever bound the President, but he at least was arguing that certain laws which, on their face, applied to the President actually didn’t because of the Constitutional unique position. Trump, on the other hand, is making the entirely unremarkable and totally correct claim that the conflict of interest laws for federal employees specifically exclude from their reach the President and Vice-President. So when people elide this distinction they are not arguing fairly. They’re relying on the confusion that the similar words used by Nixon and Trump creates in the listener to advance their preferred interpretation, instead of explaining the truth of the matter and going from there. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/113 "2016-11-25T23:31:53Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > In the interest of fairness, I’m willing to cut Trump some slack on this, but he going to have to produce results, and lasting results at that. Prepare for a long wait. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/114 "2016-11-26T00:46:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My mileage depends upon the specific question being asked. > > The general approach surrounding this issue has been to hint that Trump’s statement evoke’s Nixon’s more blanket claim that the President could evade the law. Even Nixon was not making a claim that no law ever bound the President, but he at least was arguing that certain laws which, on their face, applied to the President actually didn’t because of the Constitutional unique position. > > Trump, on the other hand, is making the entirely unremarkable and totally correct claim that the conflict of interest laws for federal employees specifically exclude from their reach the President and Vice-President. > > So when people elide this distinction they are not arguing fairly. They’re relying on the confusion that the similar words used by Nixon and Trump creates in the listener to advance their preferred interpretation, instead of explaining the truth of the matter and going from there. Who is eliding this distinction? Not me. Anyone here? OK we can go on. Imagine if Hillary had won and included Chelsea in her transition meetings; had her run the clinton foundation and the family portfolio; said that this was a “Blind trust”; intended to not show tax returns and didn’t; tried to be president using her home address and soaking up taxpayer $ to do it; and floated the idea that she could run a personal business as well as serve as president? How would you react? Trump gained attention and support as the guy that was not going to do this. He is doing this. Are you happy about that? It’s really odious to defend liars and scum, con men and cheats. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/115 "2016-11-26T15:09:29Z")
In light of what Trump has been saying the last few days, my thread title seems naive and not a little bit ironic. He’s told us the answer, and it is “no.” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/116 "2016-11-26T15:41:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Trump, on the other hand, is making the entirely unremarkable and totally correct claim that the conflict of interest laws for federal employees specifically exclude from their reach the President and Vice-President. > > So when people elide this distinction they are not arguing fairly. They’re relying on the confusion that the similar words used by Nixon and Trump creates in the listener to advance their preferred interpretation, instead of explaining the truth of the matter and going from there. Wrong. Some of us are able to grasp that the mish-mash of statutes that by happenstance happens to be the Law of the Land is not magically identical to the totality of moral law. Whether it is wrong for Trump to use his position to enrich the Trump Organization at the expense of the country he has been elected to serve doesn’t depend on the letter of any law, nor the ruling of any judge. It is manifest to good-spirited citizens. Going to law school is, it appears, an impediment to understanding moral law. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/117 "2016-11-26T16:16:18Z")
My take is that the Conservatives are just keeping this stuff in their back pocket so that they can impeach and remove a questionable President and have him replaced with their boy Pence. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/118 "2016-11-27T23:08:24Z")
The New York Times published a very revealing [article](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/us/politics/donald-trump-international-business.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0) today. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/119 "2016-11-27T23:38:10Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > The New York Times published a very revealing [article](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/us/politics/donald-trump-international-business.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0) today. It helps to quote some text from an article instead of just posting a link. For some, the NYTimes links are behind a paywall. This is a really long article, but worthwhile. It goes through Trump’s international connections in some detail, country by country. > [@](#): > > On Thanksgiving Day, a Philippine developer named Jose E. B. Antonio hosted a company anniversary bash at one of Manila’s poshest hotels. He had much to be thankful for. > > In October, he had quietly been named a special envoy to the United States by the Philippine president, Rodrigo Duterte. Mr. Antonio was nearly finished building a $150 million tower in Manila’s financial district… > > And now his partner on the project, Donald J. Trump, had just been elected president of the United States… > > Mr. Antonio’s combination of jobs — he is a business partner with Mr. Trump, while also representing the Philippines in its relationship with the United States and the president-elect — is hardly inconsequential, given some of the weighty issues on the diplomatic table… > > Situations like these are already leading some former government officials from both parties to ask if America’s reaction to events around the world could potentially be shaded,\*\* if only slightly,\*\* by the Trump family’s financial ties with foreign players. They worry, too, that in some countries those connections could compromise American efforts to criticize the corrupt intermingling of state power with vast business enterprises controlled by the political elite. > > “It is uncharted territory, really in the history of the republic, as we have never had a president with such an empire both in the United States and overseas,” said Michael J. Green, who served on the National Security Council in the administration of George W. Bush, and before that at the Defense Department. > > The globe is dotted with such potential conflicts. Mr. Trump’s companies have business operations in at least 20 countries, with a particular focus on the developing world, including outposts in nations like India, Indonesia and Uruguay, according to a New York Times analysis of his presidential campaign financial disclosures. What’s more, the true extent of Mr. Trump’s global financial entanglements is unclear, since he has refused to release his tax returns and has not made public a list of his lenders. > > In an interview with The Times on Tuesday, Mr. Trump boasted again about the global reach of his business — and his family’s ability to keep it running after he takes office. > > “I’ve built a very great company and it’s a big company and it’s all over the world,” Mr. Trump said, adding later: “I don’t care about my company. It doesn’t matter. My kids run it.” > … > > Federal law does not prevent Mr. Trump from taking actions that could benefit him and his family financially; the president is exempt from most conflict-of-interest laws. But the Constitution, through what is called the emoluments clause, appears to prohibit him from taking payments or gifts from a foreign government entity, a standard that some legal experts say he may violate by renting space in Trump Tower in New York to the Bank of China or if he hosts foreign diplomats in one of his hotels… There’s much more. My bold. “If only slightly”? Are you fucking kidding us? ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600/120 "2016-11-28T08:34:56Z")
I am 100% anti-Trump, but I don’t think the Founding Fathers anticipated a multi-Billionaire running for office who will need a heck of a lot more than between Nov 8 and December 19 or even Inauguration Day, to devolve himself of all his businesses. Hell, many of his sales, if he does so, might be held up in court until well after he leaves office! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-keep-his-business-interests-separate-from-the-presidency/772600.md?page=7)