# Will Trump pardon Mariia Butina? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 18, 2018, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-pardon-mariia-butina/818129 "2018-07-18T06:50:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-pardon-mariia-butina/818129/41 "2018-07-20T15:28:40Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I’m not sure it would be _legal_ so much as impracticable to stop. I think the government is worried that she’d be smuggled out in diplomatic luggage or something like that. That’s my reaction as well (see post 32). But I’m responding to the quote from the federal lawyer which **scr4** has quoted in post 34, where he says that Russia can legally get her out of the country. I’m curious what the federal lawyer is relying on, in saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-pardon-mariia-butina/818129/42 "2018-07-21T16:37:14Z")
[I guess we’ll find out soon](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-usa-lavrov/lavrov-tells-pompeo-free-russian-woman-accused-in-u-s-of-espionage-idUSKBN1KB0JU). (Reuters) > [@](#): > > MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia’s foreign minister told his U.S. counterpart on Saturday that a woman arrested in the United States on accusations she was a Russian agent had been detained on “fabricated charges” and should be released. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-pardon-mariia-butina/818129/43 "2018-07-22T14:36:16Z")
Just following up on the diplomatic status issue. News reports indicate that Ecuador may be tired of their house guest and may kick him out. One of the articles talking about that development linked to this old article from January, which says, in passing, that Ecuador tried to give Assange diplomatic status so they could get him out of the country, and Britain refused, saying he could not avoid the British charges in that way: > **[Ecuador Gives Assange Citizenship, Worsening Standoff With Britain (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/world/europe/julian-assange-ecuador-embassy.html?_r=0)** > > Ecuador wants the WikiLeaks founder to leave its London embassy, but Whitehall insists that he face justice, which could include extradition to the United States. So it certainly sounds like a foreign country can’t just unilaterally make one of their citizens a diplomat, immune from the host country’s laws. The host country has to agree to the diplomatic immunity, because it relates to the host country’s own sovereignty and waiving the application of the host country’s laws to that individual. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-pardon-mariia-butina/818129/44 "2018-07-22T15:35:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Just because somebody is redheaded, they were accused of being some sort of spy for Russia. I think that this has gotten totally out of control,” > > - Sarah Huckleberry Sanders > > Defending gingers! Freckle-faced, knock-kneed, soul-sucking _gingers_! Connect the dot, people! Connect the dot! Huckabee Sanders’ [comment](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sanders-being-redheaded-does-not-make-someone-a-russian-spy) was about rumors that Butina had been [photographed in the Oval Office](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/accused-russian-spy-mariia-butina-photographed-oval-office/). She had not. It was a case of mistaken identity, ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-pardon-mariia-butina/818129/45 "2018-07-22T16:31:41Z")
Why would she even need to go to an airport? Once she gets to the embassy, she could take a helicopter straight to a ship waiting outside the US territorial limit. If the Russian government wanted to exfiltrate her, they certainly have the resources for it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-pardon-mariia-butina/818129/46 "2018-07-22T16:55:09Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Huckabee Sanders’ [comment](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sanders-being-redheaded-does-not-make-someone-a-russian-spy) was about rumors that Butina had been [photographed in the Oval Office](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/accused-russian-spy-mariia-butina-photographed-oval-office/). She had not. It was a case of mistaken identity, While the woman in the photo is not her, it is important to note that it would be hard to find if she did enter the White House because: > **[White House visitor logs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_visitor_logs)** > > White House visitor logs, also known as the White House Worker and Visitor Entry System (WAVE), are the guestbook records of individuals visiting the White House to meet with the President of the United States or other White House officials. > The release of some logs to the public has been a goal of and can be credited to the pressure from watchdog groups concerned with the possible undue influence of lobbyists over the US government. Groups such as Judicial Watch, CREW, and The National Security... > [@](#): > > The Trump administration withdrew its support for release of the logs, and is not making visitor logs available to the public, though some comments suggest the logs could be made available “five years after Trump leaves office”.[9][10][10] This has led to several watchdog groups suing the government again, demanding the release of such logs, which should be seen as a matter of public record.[11][10] ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-pardon-mariia-butina/818129/47 "2018-07-22T20:52:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > While the woman in the photo is not her, it is important to note that it would be hard to find if she did enter the White House because: > > [White House visitor logs - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_visitor_logs) Trump has released his log far too often already. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-pardon-mariia-butina/818129/48 "2018-07-22T21:51:57Z")
You can leave the US (and Canada) without seeing any US agent. In most countries, you have to pass some exit control on the way out, but not the US. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-pardon-mariia-butina/818129/49 "2018-07-25T17:25:54Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > You can leave the US (and Canada) without seeing any US agent. In most countries, you have to pass some exit control on the way out, but not the US. > [@Chronos](#): > > Why would she even need to go to an airport? Once she gets to the embassy, she could take a helicopter straight to a ship waiting outside the US territorial limit. If the Russian government wanted to exfiltrate her, they certainly have the resources for it. I’m not denying that a foreign country with lots of resources can get someone out, and I agree that there normally aren’t exit controls at the US. However, I’m still curious why the federal prosecutor asserted that Russia could legally get her out. It’s a federal crime to leave the US with the goal of escaping prosecution: 18 [U.S. Code § 1073 - Flight to avoid prosecution or giving testimony](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1073). I assume that like any other federal crime, if federal officials suspect on reasonable grounds that someone is trying to commit the crime, they can stop and arrest. That’s a different issue from whether there are normally exit controls on people leaving the US. And, if the District Court orders the accused not to leave the jurisdiction, and the accused does so, that’s contempt of court: [18 U.S. Code § 401 - Power of court](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/401). Again, not lawful, and can be prosecuted if the reason for leaving is to avoid prosecution, which is an offence: [18 U.S. Code § 402 - Contempts constituting crimes.](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/402) So, I’m still puzzled why a federal prosecutor would say that Russia could legally take her out of the United States. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-trump-pardon-mariia-butina/818129.md?page=2)