# Will Tunisian revolution inspire actions in other nations? (Now following Egypt.) \[ed. title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2011, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703 "2011-01-15T09:24:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/401 "2011-02-05T16:58:09Z")
All they’re doing is quoting an Egyptian official claiming it was an accident. He may be telling the truth, but it seems like a bit too much of a coincidence. We’ll probably find out the truth over the next few days. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/402 "2011-02-05T17:39:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > All they’re doing is quoting an Egyptian official claiming it was an accident. He may be telling the truth, but it seems like a bit too much of a coincidence. We’ll probably find out the truth over the next few days. And? _ **All** _ the **other** news was doing was quoting their State TV, whereas the latest is from the Gas Co. Since it was the line to Jordan and not Israel, I think until there is good reason to believe otherwise, banal industrial accident it is (maybe a week of short-staffing conributes). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/403 "2011-02-05T17:55:04Z")
True, but taking into account the other events occuring in the Sinai - the 12 policemen killed by Beduins, the two Egyptian Army battalions moving into the region, the renewal of rockets from Gaza into Israel - Occam’s Razor compells me to assume sabotage over accident. I wouldn’t be surprised if saboteurs mistook the Jordanian pipleline with the Israeli one; terrorists, by and large, aren’t all that smart. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/404 "2011-02-05T18:55:36Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > True, but taking into account the other events occuring in the Sinai - the 12 policemen killed by Beduins, the two Egyptian Army battalions moving into the region, the renewal of rockets from Gaza into Israel - Occam’s Razor compells me to assume sabotage over accident. I wouldn’t be surprised if saboteurs mistook the Jordanian pipleline with the Israeli one; terrorists, by and large, aren’t all that smart. Mmmmm Occam’s razor isn’t an excuse to string together unrelated series of events (except all to Egypt going to hell). Anyway, even if sabotage, trotting out terrorists is premature. What I have read in the UK and international press suggested to me the Bedouins seem to have lots of reasons to lash out at the Gov - I don’t call sabotage terrorism normally. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/405 "2011-02-05T18:59:02Z")
There’s plenty of reason for them to do that just to get at the government of Egypt. It’s not always all about Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/406 "2011-02-05T19:00:34Z")
Hmm, semantics. To me, non-government individuals carrying out acts of sabotage are by definition terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/407 "2011-02-05T19:38:52Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hmm, semantics. To me, non-government individuals carrying out acts of sabotage are by definition terrorists. Then you are making sabotage and terror synonyms. In the Language of Shakespeare they are not. Perhaps in Hebrew you’ve decided for your own unique political purposes they are. However, the idiocy of such ‘semantics’ is that a disgruntled engineer that sabotages a valve for even trivial reasons becomes a “terrorist” - that is clearly idiocy. Even for political reasons, sabotage is not terror. It’s sabotage… ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/408 "2011-02-05T20:11:30Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Then you are making sabotage and terror synonyms. In the Language of Shakespeare they are not. Perhaps in Hebrew you’ve decided for your own unique political purposes they are. I don’t know if it’s politics or not, but in Hebrew, “terrorist” and “saboteur” are indeed synonymous. It’s just a linguistic quirk - the English language defines them by the results of their actions, while Hebrew defines them by the actions themselves (when the term was originally defined, terrorist attacks consisted mainly of bombings). In any event, I apologize - I wasn’t trying to make any sort of political point. English may be my native tongue, but after 30 years of speaking Hebrew, I occasionally misappropriate subtleties. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/409 "2011-02-06T10:03:00Z")
Well, English shares this “aberration” with the continental European languages, so strikes me as an Israeli thing. Regardless the actions themselves can be very different as noted. BLocal edouin sabotaging something to cock a snook at the Gov isn’t terrorism… ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/410 "2011-02-06T10:23:04Z")
Terrorism and sabotage are distinguished by their design. Terrorism aims to inspire fear. Sabotage aims to materially hinder. The same act may sometimes be both, but they are not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/411 "2011-02-06T10:37:41Z")
In my experience, terrorist attacks tend to inspire anger more often than they inspire fear. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/412 "2011-02-06T10:49:03Z")
Mmm Spark spoke to aim / intent, you’re talking results. Obviously two different sides of the coin. Both could be perfectly true observations. Sabotage versus terror / effecting a psychological impact on a population are materially different objectives. An an example: Say it this was Bedouin sabotage, I presume the inhabitants out there are Bedouin so they’re probably not terrorizing themselves, but they may well be taking an act to express their displeasure at Cairo Gov’t… and maybe force an action. Not terror in this instance by any normal sense. Sabotage by a disgruntled engineer also in the same area. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/413 "2011-02-06T10:56:40Z")
So blowing up a bus station to kill people is terrorism, while blowing up a bus station to disrupt the transportation system is sabotage? Even if it’s the same bomb? I don’t know. To me, it sounds like you’re saying that there should be a different term for a military air strike against an enemy camp than that for a military air strike against an enemy power station. They may have different strategic goals, but they’re both air strikes. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/414 "2011-02-06T11:06:44Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So blowing up a bus station to kill people is terrorism, while blowing up a bus station to disrupt the transportation system is sabotage? Even if it’s the same bomb? Bus stations are public, normally in the W. European langauges I know the idea of terrorism is aimed at the terrorizing the population. You can of course come up with scenario, as you just did where they are the same. But simple Venn Diagram - basic maths logic - can show you that it is illogical to jump thusly that Sabotage = Terror. Except in Hebrew. Anyway, most W. European language usage came to a different usage conclusion, not merely perfidious Albion, etc. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/415 "2011-02-06T13:57:28Z")
[Muslim Brotherhood joins talks on Egypt’s new government.](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fgw-egypt-unrest-20110207,0,4350829.story) ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/416 "2011-02-07T18:26:12Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > If you’re going to respond to me, please respond to what I actually wrote. > > I never said Jordan was a democracy. A nation where the King can only be overruled by a two-thirds majority of Parliament is not a democracy. > > My point was he isn’t a dictator because dictators don’t allow Parliaments to overrule them. > > Finally, claiming that the Islamic Action Front is a “regime-approved puppet” is an extremely ridiculous statement. But when the parliament is full of puppets and the “overruling” is just kabuki theatre then there’s no actual difference between a dictatorship and what you have in Jordan. Like I said it’s a distinction without a difference. You have parties there that pay lip service to the Palestinian cause but that’s all they do, and it’s muted at best. Do something concrete, like hand out leaflets critical of the peace treaty with the entity, and you get thrown in prison : > **[Press Releases](https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases?NewsID=13518)** Recite a poem in public that doesn’r even mention the King but the secret police don’t like and you get thrown in prison too. If you want any kind of job of promotion you need a letter from the secret police saying that you’re a good boy who doesn’t cause trouble or you’re unemployable. Bearing that in mind, let’s take your claim at face value. Because there has been at least one instance of the parliament overruling the monarcy, the fact that it’s kabuki theatre designed to fool only the people you can fool all the time notwithstanding, let’s say that Jordan isn’t a dictatorship. It is however an incredibly repressive country though, no? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/417 "2011-02-08T19:24:31Z")
[Even bigger protest turnout today,](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12394941) “hundreds of thousands” in Tahrir Square, rejecting Mubarak’s concessions and demanding he go. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/418 "2011-02-08T21:37:32Z")
[Rumor has it](http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Next-Stop-for-Mubarak-German-Luxury-Clinic-6899) Mubarak is planning a stay at a German luxury clinic/spa in the near future. You know. For his health. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/419 "2011-02-10T05:05:55Z")
Interesting: [U.S. Has Secret Tools to Force Internet on Dictators](http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/02/secret-tools-force-net/#) Excerpt: **“The U.S. military has no shortage of devices — many of them classified — that could restore connectivity to a restive populace cut off from the outside world by its rulers. It’s an attractive option for policymakers who want an option for future Egypts, between doing nothing and sending in the Marines. And it might give teeth to the Obama administration’s demand that foreign governments consider internet access an inviolable human right.”** ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/420 "2011-02-10T16:52:41Z")
And now the news is that [Mubarak is stepping down tonight.](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41506482/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa/) Looks like the military forced this so I’m not really sure how things will work in the interim but it looks like the protesters are at least getting part of what they want. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703.md?page=22)