# Will Tunisian revolution inspire actions in other nations? (Now following Egypt.) \[ed. title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2011, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703 "2011-01-15T09:24:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/121 "2011-01-29T08:31:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Are Israelis satisfied with the U.S.’ stance on all this so far? Would you rather see the Administration doing anything differently? I think Israel wants America to do what it’s doing - keep its head down and shut the fuck up. Nothing we say or do can help anyone. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/122 "2011-01-29T12:55:00Z")
> **[Mohamed ElBaradei](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_ElBaradei)** > > Mohamed Mostafa ElBaradei (Arabic: محمد مصطفى البرادعي, romanized: Muḥammad Muṣṭafá al-Barādaʿī, Egyptian Arabic: \[mæˈħæmːæd mosˈtˤɑfɑ (ʔe)lbæˈɾædʕi\]; born 17 June 1942) is an Egyptian law scholar and diplomat who served as the vice president of Egypt on an interim basis from 14 July 2013 until his resignation on 14 August 2013. > He was the Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), an intergovernmental organization under the auspices of the United Nations (UN), from 199... Oh, I think the current likely post-revolution head of Egypt is probably going to be the best possible leader. No, I’m not even joking. This guy is one of those really inspirational types. This has been a beautiful revolution. Seeing those protestors protecting the Egyptian Museum in Cairo brought a tear to my eyes. [http://www.euronews.net/2011/01/29/egyptians-form-human-shield-to-protect-museum/](http://www.euronews.net/2011/01/29/egyptians-form-human-shield-to-protect-museum/) And Alessan’s damn right there. Biden and Obama are playing a tight and careful game and not giving anyone any excuses to blame the US for anything. Just say nothing and wait. This is an internal Egyptian problem, personal feelings don’t mean jack at this level. Except, of course, supporting democracy and the rights of man. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/123 "2011-01-29T13:48:50Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > This has been a beautiful revolution. Seeing those protestors protecting the Egyptian Museum in Cairo brought a tear to my eyes. > [http://www.euronews.net/2011/01/29/egyptians-form-human-shield-to-protect-museum/](http://www.euronews.net/2011/01/29/egyptians-form-human-shield-to-protect-museum/) See, that’s one way Egypt differs from every other Arab nation - unlike them, it’s a true nation-state. All the others are basically trumped-up city-states, tribal fiefdoms and colonial mistake, but Egypt has a sense of shared history and shared destiny. That’s what might pull them through this mess. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/124 "2011-01-29T15:13:54Z")
I’m fascinated that the army has been called out on Mubarak’s orders, but has been welcomed by the people in the streets. Demonstrators are literally riding army tanks and trucks through Cairo, sometimes painting anti-Mubarak slogans on them, happily fraternizing with soldiers. Egyptians feel that the army is _theirs_–unlike the police. Army commanders are still nominally taking orders from Mubarak, but it’s difficult to imagine them turning weapons on the crowds now. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/125 "2011-01-29T15:27:17Z")
And that, my friends, is one advantage of a conscription military. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/126 "2011-01-29T16:22:21Z")
Just watching MSNBC and their reporter in Cairo says they have news from a reliable source Gamal Mubarak has taken his family and flown to London. Have things shifted that dramatically since last night? I wonder if his father will follow soon. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/127 "2011-01-29T16:22:39Z")
In further news, Mubarak’s wife and sons have fled the country. So much for Gemal inheriting the throne. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/128 "2011-01-29T16:23:11Z")
Ok some very ill informed person up thread said Turkey has a very large Christian population. According to the CIA World fact book, Muslim 99.8% 0.2 % Christian and Jews and others. For comparison Pakistan everybody’s favorite target has a non muslim % of 5% almost 10 million people. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/129 "2011-01-29T16:25:06Z")
To be fair, Turkey used to have a large Christian population until the 1920’s, when they kicked them all out. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/130 "2011-01-29T16:33:02Z")
Yup! Anyway, the thread title is really outdated now, IMO. Could this thread be split and focus on Egypt? Say from page 2 of the present thread onwards. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/131 "2011-01-29T16:39:47Z")
By the way whatever Obama does, the US reputation wise is rather less popular then even Halagu Khan was. As far as influence, its quite a choice, support Mubarak and his regime and forget about ever winning hearts and minds, not support Mubarak you have a wild card, new might not like you at best or be rabidly anti-West or worst case scenario a democracy where the leader actually has to cater to local opinions most of which would go against US strategic interests. Why do I think US diplomacy in the Middle East circa 1945 to date is going to be studied in future generations as a text book example of how to fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/132 "2011-01-29T16:54:06Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > That was your original post. I dont see any mention of Turkish or Arab in it. I’ve underlined the key word here to make things easier. > There arent that many Muslim countries (I believe Muslim countries is usually where Islamists take power) that have seen Islamists take over. Turkey is probably the only Muslim country where Islamists were democratically elected (could be wrong on this, feel free to correct). I believe it is a freer society than a shitload of pro-West Arab/Muslim “friendly dictatures” (even more ironic, Islamist Turkey is actually one of the most pro West Muslim countries). > > And to all that might worry this would slight the US’s or Israel’s interests, I think a big “Fuck You” is in order. Western meddling has often been for the worse for the peoples living there. We might want to cut our tone down a little. > Just for decency’s sake. Well to be fair, there used to be a LOT more Christians in Turkey until Muslim Turks committed [one of the most brutal genocides of the 20th Century.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide#Controversies) It is a freer society NOW maybe but the surviving Armenians will tell you there was a price to be paid, and what’s more it’s still forbidden to discuss the Armenian genocide in Turkey. But that’s not my central point, which is that Turkey’s long history as part of the Ottoman Empire and generally “the area around Constantinople” has led to there being an lot more contact with and influence of the West, even after the Muslim conquest. I’ts NOT like other countries in the Middle East. And of course we have every reason to be concerned about what happens in the Middle East. Place is crawling with crazy buggers who like to blow stuff up. Haven’t you noticed? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/133 "2011-01-29T16:58:56Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > By the way whatever Obama does, the US reputation wise is rather less popular then even Halagu Khan was. As far as influence, its quite a choice, support Mubarak and his regime and forget about ever winning hearts and minds, not support Mubarak you have a wild card, new might not like you at best or be rabidly anti-West or worst case scenario a democracy where the leader actually has to cater to local opinions most of which would go against US strategic interests. > > Why do I think US diplomacy in the Middle East circa 1945 to date is going to be studied in future generations as a text book example of how to fuck up. Well supporting Israel is gonna put us in a difficult position vis a vis the entire rest of the Middle East, and we sure have done it dumbly and blindly, which makes things worse. The Israelis do whatever the fuck they want and we just nod and go along with it, maybe with the occasional “tut tut.” That said, we were doing a HELL of a lot better in the Middle East before we elected that fucking idiot Dubya as President and the crazy former Trotskyite Jews of the PNAC took over our Middle East policy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/134 "2011-01-29T17:02:03Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > And Alessan’s damn right there. Biden and Obama are playing a tight and careful game and not giving anyone any excuses to blame the US for anything. Just say nothing and wait. This is an internal Egyptian problem, personal feelings don’t mean jack at this level. Except, of course, supporting democracy and the rights of man. Obama got on TV and addressed the world about his thoughts on the situation. How does that constitute “just say nothing and wait”. Hillary is out there, too. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/135 "2011-01-29T17:05:14Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Hate to break this to you but most of the coups you seem to be referencing were not against Islamists. Also, the current center-right AK Party can be argued to have expanded civil rights since taking parliament in 2002. They also follow a policy of peace with their neighbors which has helped to stabilize the region. > > edit to comment on your last post: The military may have helped stabilize the country in times of chaos, maybe, but its not this secular vs. islamist picture you are trying to draw for us. Currently a huge chuck of the military is being tried for plotting against the AK government yet the AK government has done nothing to hurt Turkish secularism and democracy. That simply isn’t accurate. There is genuine fears that AK is chipping away at the secularist pillars of Turkish society. The Economist just did a Turkish review, I can’t link to it, but there are serious concerns as to AK’s intentions. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/136 "2011-01-29T17:05:30Z")
There was question regarding Syria earlier? I am certainly not more of an expert compared to Alessan, but IMHO, Syria is just shut too tight for revolt. They had this type of protest a number of years ago; they were mowed down by machine guns. I see no reason to believe a new protest won’t end the same way. Plus Syria has no Internet. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/137 "2011-01-29T17:07:39Z")
One word: Hama. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/138 "2011-01-29T17:10:17Z")
[Here](http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/mess-report/the-price-mubarak-will-have-to-pay-1.339964)’s one attempt to describe the core demographic of the revolution in Egypt. > [@Avi Issacharoff / Haaretz](#): > > It should be said, the writing was on the wall. Immediately after the Tunisia revolution, a reasonable suspicion that Egypt will be next arose. It was by way of “the usual suspect.” A dictatorship, a single ruler for over 30 years, a corrupt governmental system, a broken economy, millions living in humiliating poverty and mostly an entire generation demanding change: young, educated, unaffiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood ideology but rather to Western culture. This generation grew into an explosive device which went unnoticed by everyone. While everyone was searching for the Muslim threat on the Egyptian government, the radar did not pick up on the frustration and rage of the young generation who sought for a democracy, freedom and mostly livelihood. Of course, plenty of observers somehow missed that “writing” and suspicion. And [here](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/29/world/middleeast/29elbaradei.html?partner=rss&emc=rss) is an account of ElBaradei’s appearance. > [@David D. Kirkpatrick / NYT](#): > > Mohamed ElBaradei, an Egyptian who won a Nobel Peace Prize for his work to promote nuclear nonproliferation, never made a very likely revolutionary leader. But there he was Friday, in a soft leather jacket and clip-on sunglasses, standing toe-to-toe with a line of hundreds of riot police several blocks long. > > At his back were thousands who had risen from their Friday prayers at a mosque near Cairo chanting for an end to the 30-year rule of President Hosni Mubarak. Some said they had come to this mosque especially because they expected to find Dr. ElBaradei, who has become, partly by his own design, partly by default, the Mubarak government’s best-known critic. > > “Peacefully, peacefully,” the protesters chanted as they jostled against the police shields. Then came a hail of baton blows on the crowd around Dr. ElBaradei, who stood his ground. Then came a blast of a water cannon, which drenched him along with the crowd. And only when the police escalated to tear gas to clear the streets did Dr. ElBaradei, 68, finally retreat into the relative security of the mosque to dry off and wash the gas residue from his face and eyes. By Friday night, there were numerous reports that Dr. ElBaradei’s appearance at the front lines was too much for the government, and that the Egyptian police had warned him to stay in his home, effectively placing him under house arrest. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/139 "2011-01-29T17:10:56Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > One word: Hama. One letter: “s”. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/140 "2011-01-29T17:17:46Z")
Nope. Hama, Syria, 1982. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703.md?page=8)