# Will Tunisian revolution inspire actions in other nations? (Now following Egypt.) \[ed. title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 15, 2011, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703 "2011-01-15T09:24:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/141 "2011-01-29T17:19:27Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Nope. > Hama, Syria, 1982. Never mind… ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/142 "2011-01-29T17:22:35Z")
:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/143 "2011-01-29T17:23:52Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Well to be fair, there used to be a LOT more Christians in Turkey until Muslim Turks committed [one of the most brutal genocides of the 20th Century.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide#Controversies) It is a freer society NOW maybe but the surviving Armenians will tell you there was a price to be paid, and what’s more it’s still forbidden to discuss the Armenian genocide in Turkey. > > But that’s not my central point, which is that Turkey’s long history as part of the Ottoman Empire and generally “the area around Constantinople” has led to there being an lot more contact with and influence of the West, even after the Muslim conquest. I’ts NOT like other countries in the Middle East. > > And of course we have every reason to be concerned about what happens in the Middle East. Place is crawling with crazy buggers who like to blow stuff up. Haven’t you noticed? “Muslim Turks”??? The Kemalists were Muslim Turks???! Jesus Fucking Christ, I’m sure there’s a “Middle East for Dummies” book. Consider buying it before doing anymore postings. Oh yeah, **Tom Scud** completely forgot about Gaza. But, as you said, hard to compare with the other Arab countries. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/144 "2011-01-29T17:25:47Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Obama got on TV and addressed the world about his thoughts on the situation. How does that constitute “just say nothing and wait”. Hillary is out there, too. I’m sorry, I wasn’t clear enough, John. He said a lot of nothing. Eg, he, at that point, didn’t come out in favor of either Mubarak or the protestors, just human rights. The official stance seems to be staying out of the situation. Which is probably the smart thing to do. I imagine there are a fuckton of backroom calls going on, but not giving Mubarak any excuse to declare the protestors ‘america-backed’ or something is the best choice. > **[Breaking News, World News and Video from Al Jazeera](https://www.aljazeera.com/)** > > News, analysis from the Middle East & worldwide, multimedia & interactives, opinions, documentaries, podcasts, long reads and broadcast schedule. By the way, this is the guy Mubarak declared to be his VP, after 30 years of no VP. Not sure what’s going on with it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/145 "2011-01-29T17:26:03Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Of course, plenty of observers somehow missed that “writing” and suspicion. For example, Jeffrey Feltman, the Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs–that is, the Obama administration’s diplomat most directly responsible for knowing about and interpreting the politics of the region–managed to say as recently as Wednesday, > [@Jeffrey Feltman](#): > > What happened in Tunisia strikes me as uniquely Tunisian. That the events that took place here over the past few weeks derive from particularly Tunisian grievances, from Tunisian circumstances by the Tunisian people. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/146 "2011-01-29T17:27:09Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > :rolleyes: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/147 "2011-01-29T17:29:19Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > “Muslim Turks”??? The Kemalists were Muslim Turks???! Jesus Fucking Christ, I’m sure there’s a “Middle East for Dummies” book. Consider buying it before doing anymore postings. Mustafa Kemal and his followers, while avowedly secular, were also nominally Muslim. However, the Armenian genocide in the east, followed by the expulsion of Greek Christians from the west, were motivated by nationalism rather than religion. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/148 "2011-01-29T17:31:22Z")
The new VP was (and may still be) the head of Intelligence. When they set the spymaster up for top banana, ain’t no regime change coming. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/149 "2011-01-29T17:54:28Z")
The situation leading up to Hama was dramatically different from what we have going on now; there was a long period of escalating violence (dare I say “terrorist violence”) from the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria; it would have been much easier to convince the average soldier and the average mid-level commander that they were an existential threat. The army in Egypt might yet obey a Tienanmen Square-type order, but at this point I wouldn’t put money on it. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/150 "2011-01-29T17:55:43Z")
Also, speaking of contagion, apparently China is heavily censoring reports of the happenings in Egypt on their national Internet. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/151 "2011-01-29T17:57:14Z")
[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110129/ap\_on\_re\_us/us\_us\_egypt](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110129/ap_on_re_us/us_us_egypt) I didn’t have a solid source for this, but now I do. The State Department is now saying things. State Department Spokesman P. J. Crowley: “The Egyptian government can’t reshuffle the deck and then stand pat,” Crowley said on his Twitter account. “President Mubarak’s words pledging reform must be followed by action.” That is not a nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/152 "2011-01-29T18:03:37Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > That simply isn’t accurate. There is genuine fears that AK is chipping away at the secularist pillars of Turkish society. The Economist just did a Turkish review, I can’t link to it, but there are serious concerns as to AK’s intentions. Can you at least claim who says this. I have been an avid Turkey politics watcher since about 2001. Since the AK Party gained control of parliament I have seen this “they’re going to abolish the secular state!” meme every couple of years. You really need to pay attention to who is saying what in the context of Turkish politics. Anyway the minimum you can do is give me then name of the article, and if I find this article and it has a bunch of neo-Ottoman bullshit in it I’ll puke. > [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > “Muslim Turks”??? The Kemalists were Muslim Turks???! Jesus Fucking Christ, I’m sure there’s a “Middle East for Dummies” book. Consider buying it before doing anymore postings. > > Oh yeah, **Tom Scud** completely forgot about Gaza. But, as you said, hard to compare with the other Arab countries. > [@Alessan](#): > > Mustafa Kemal and his followers, while avowedly secular, were also nominally Muslim. However, the Armenian genocide in the east, followed by the expulsion of Greek Christians from the west, were motivated by nationalism rather than religion. I really hope you guys aren’t tarring the Armenian genocide on Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. The people responsible for those decisions did not include Ataturk. The leaders of the Young Turk government, Enver and Talat Pasha made the decisions that culminated in the genocide of Armenians. Ataturk was at Gallipoli and not an influential member of the Young Turks. The exchange of Greeks and Turks was after a bitter war of independence led by Ataturk where the Greeks who had taken over their partition of Turkey had been the strongest resistance. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/153 "2011-01-29T18:27:32Z")
Disquieting note from the [AJE live blog](http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2011/01/29/live-blog-291-egypt-protests) > [@](#): > > 7:38pm Ayman Mohyeldin reports that eyewitnesses have said “party thugs” associated with the Egyptian regime’s Central Security Services - in plainclothes but bearing government-issued weapons - have been looting in Cairo. Ayman says the reports started off as isolated accounts but are now growing in number. Seems like a two-fer: the plainsclothes policemen/thugs get to reward themselves, and also create an atmosphere of chaos & property destruction that will justify the Army cracking down. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/154 "2011-01-29T18:37:23Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > I really hope you guys aren’t tarring the Armenian genocide on Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. The people responsible for those decisions did not include Ataturk. The leaders of the Young Turk government, Enver and Talat Pasha made the decisions that culminated in the genocide of Armenians. Ataturk was at Gallipoli and not an influential member of the Young Turks. > > The exchange of Greeks and Turks was after a bitter war of independence led by Ataturk where the Greeks who had taken over their partition of Turkey had been the strongest resistance. Ataturk’s project was broadly in continuity with the Young Turks; both modernizing, and both secular, though Ataturk took both elements farther and also disclaimed any ambition to restore/maintain the broader Ottoman Empire. And the “exchange” of the Greeks and Turks involved a hell of a lot of people being killed, most of them Greeks; it’s not clear how Ataturk could have avoided this and still won the war, considering everything that led up to it, but it did happen on his watch. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/155 "2011-01-29T19:25:10Z")
From the Economist’s recent report on Turkey. Appears to be neutral and points to the armies continuing role though it does positively comment on AK. > **[A fading European dream](https://www.economist.com/special-report/2010/10/23/a-fading-european-dream)** > > Will Turkey ever join the EU? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/156 "2011-01-29T19:27:16Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > “Muslim Turks”??? The Kemalists were Muslim Turks???! Jesus Fucking Christ, I’m sure there’s a “Middle East for Dummies” book. Consider buying it before doing anymore postings. They were Muslims and they were living in what is now Turkey. Sorry I misspoke! I should have called them … Aldebaranians! No, wait, Martians! Oh, wait a minute … Cheeberinos! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/157 "2011-01-29T19:31:17Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110129/ap\_on\_re\_us/us\_us\_egypt](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110129/ap_on_re_us/us_us_egypt) > > I didn’t have a solid source for this, but now I do. The State Department is now saying things. > > State Department Spokesman P. J. Crowley: > “The Egyptian government can’t reshuffle the deck and then stand pat,” Crowley said on his Twitter account. “President Mubarak’s words pledging reform must be followed by action.” > > That is not a nothing. After 30 years of rule it’s time to go. This will not be done until Mubarak is gone and there is only one way for him to stay. Oh, and, Bidden saying that he would not call Mubarak dictator was a bit… rich. At least all the cards are on the table. It’s funny, Obama was riding the wave of support after Iraq debacle and now it seems it will be shown that he is not a President, he’s just filling the role. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/158 "2011-01-29T19:32:19Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110129/ap\_on\_re\_us/us\_us\_egypt](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110129/ap_on_re_us/us_us_egypt) > > I didn’t have a solid source for this, but now I do. The State Department is now saying things. > > State Department Spokesman P. J. Crowley: > “The Egyptian government can’t reshuffle the deck and then stand pat,” Crowley said on his Twitter account. “President Mubarak’s words pledging reform must be followed by action.” > > That is not a nothing. Sounds like it COULD be a nothing. It’s just words. How much real power does the US have in backing up our words if no reforms happen? ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/159 "2011-01-29T19:43:05Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Oh, and, Bidden saying that he would not call Mubarak dictator was a bit… rich. At least all the cards are on the table. > > It’s funny, Obama was riding the wave of support after Iraq debacle and now it seems it will be shown that he is not a President, he’s just filling the role. Biden is a clown. I’m no fan if Obama but really what is he supposed to do? The situation is so volatile and frankly complicated that he has to be very careful. I’m not seeing the easy way out here. Thus far, he is handling it well. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703/160 "2011-01-29T20:31:40Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Oh, and, Bidden saying that he would not call Mubarak dictator was a bit… rich. At least all the cards are on the table. I can’t see how Biden saying what he said is in any way unexpected. I can’t imagine any VP or President in recent memory who would have publicly called Mubarak a dictator. We have developed a bad habit of proping up the bad guys who do what we want. I’ve always thought it is a mindset leftover from the days of the Cold War. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-tunisian-revolution-inspire-actions-in-other-nations-now-following-egypt-ed-title/567703.md?page=9)