# Will we ever fight back? When will that line be drawn? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 19, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058 "2022-04-19T15:59:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/21 "2022-04-19T17:07:47Z")
As individuals we can do very little (unless we’re billionaires). But individuals can embrace the message of how voting rights are a top issue and pass it on to more people. By doing so individuals can become a movement. I can’t fix the problem. But we can. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/22 "2022-04-19T17:34:00Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > I live in a very Blue state - should I call my congress critter and tell them how I want them to vote or to get off their ass and get going on voting rights? Will that make a difference? Don’t do that unless you have a tangible request. “Get going on voting rights” is not a tangible request to a Democratic Representative. The House already passed H.R.1. and most Democratic Senators support it. It is entirely possible that your representatives _do_ think voting rights are a top priority. It may be that there is literally nothing you can do without, for example, moving to a different area. Closer to the election there are certainly going to be mailing campaigns you can help out with, for example with information on where and how to vote (in Republican areas) despite local voting restrictions. Think about it this way - if your top priority is voting rights in areas where you _don’t_ live, how much of a right do _you_ have to decide that? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/23 "2022-04-19T17:41:21Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Think about it this way - if your top priority is voting rights in areas where you _don’t_ live, how much of a right do _you_ have to decide that? I think as a citizen of The United States, we should all have an interest in ensuring that every citizen of The United States is not burdened with undue hardships to vote and are not prevented from voting. Our society is based on the concept of the consent of the governed and that is where the power of our government comes from. We allow it. If we cannot all consent, and only certain voices are allowed to consent, then we all should have a right to try to correct that. We all live in this country. We are not 50 different countries. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/24 "2022-04-19T17:43:23Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > I think as a citizen of The United States, we should all have an interest in ensuring that every citizen of The United States is not burdened with undue hardships to vote and are not prevented from voting. You should have an interest. But that interest manifests in the form of elected representatives who vote for voting rights legislation. If your representatives are already doing that… there’s only so much more you can do. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/25 "2022-04-19T17:44:48Z")
Donations can be made to PACs and candidates that are in favor of it. We can advocate online and in person when we have the opportunity. This is a participatory democratic society. We are allowed to participate in things that happen outside our congressional district. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/26 "2022-04-19T17:50:38Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Donations can be made to PACs and candidates that are in favor of it. You certainly have the right to donate to and support candidates in regions where you don’t live. I believe you are allowed to donate up to $5k per PAC and just under $3k per candidate, per year. But I don’t think that’s the right thing to do. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/27 "2022-04-19T17:52:44Z")
I’m curious why? Do you think the side that is against voting rights observes that? It seems to me that we all have to play by the rules as they exist, not as we wish them to be. Otherwise we are just yielding everything to the side that definitely never follows any unwritten rules. Seems very foolish. Unless you want that side to win. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/28 "2022-04-19T17:57:46Z")
My opinion is that it is wrong to meddle in other people’s elections, period. Other people do it, but that doesn’t affect my opinion of whether it’s right or wrong. You have to decide for yourself whether it’s more important than “winning”. Presidential candidates/PACs are different because the President is a nationwide office (even though the states conduct 50 separate elections). ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/29 "2022-04-19T18:03:44Z")
“Winning” isn’t the point. What is more important is protecting the rights of the marginalized, the continued existence of our representative democratic society, preventing minority fascistic authoritarianism from being forced upon us and it becoming permanent (not unlike the way it is in Russia), etc. It isn’t just a game where winning is all that matters. The current system is very flawed, but we cannot change it without winning elections. We cannot win elections if we follow unwritten rules that the other side laughs at while breaking actual written rules. This thread is about how we fight back. Adhering to Queensbury rules while the other side is shanking us in the back is the opposite of fighting back. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/30 "2022-04-19T18:11:08Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > “Winning” isn’t the point. […] The current system is very flawed, but we cannot change it without winning elections. And you _can_ donate money to help win other people’s elections. You are entitled to believe it is necessary and that the end justifies the means. It is a valid way to ‘fight back’ from the comfort of your own home. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/31 "2022-04-19T18:12:19Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > It is a valid way to ‘fight back’ from the comfort of your own home. What is this supposed to mean? The only valid way to fight back is actual violence or something? This thread is about when and how we can fight back. Your responses seem to be “Don’t, just lie back and take it. It’s easier that way.” ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/32 "2022-04-19T18:14:09Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > What is this supposed to mean? Sorry, those weren’t sarcasm quotes. Just emphesis. > [@Airbeck](#): > > Your responses seem to be My actual response was, > [@Max\_S](#): > > It is entirely possible that your representatives _do_ think voting rights are a top priority. It may be that there is literally nothing you can do _without, for example, moving to a different area._ Closer to the election there are certainly going to be _mailing campaigns_ you can help out with, for example with information on where and how to vote (in Republican areas) despite local voting restrictions. > [@Max\_S](#): > > You certainly have the right to donate to and support candidates in regions where you don’t live. I believe you are allowed to donate up to $5k per PAC and just under $3k per candidate, per year. But I don’t think that’s the right thing to do. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/33 "2022-04-19T18:27:22Z")
Right, so you are saying here are the only things you can do, but I don’t think you should do them. And that’s how to fight back. Ok then. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/34 "2022-04-19T18:31:14Z")
Another way to “fight back” is to engage with those with opposing views who are willing to have a conversation. I know that can be tough to find such people, but it is possible. Be willing to listen, and be willing to carefully explain, without insulting. I maintain close friendships with people that do not agree with me on many things. We disagree a lot but remain respectful, and can focus on other activities and other parts of our lives besides politics. Yes, it takes effort to leave the bubble and enter someone else’s. I know I have nudged people to be more accepting of my view, and likewise I have been more accepting of theirs (to an extent). And yes, some people cannot be reached. Making social media the battlefield is not going to work, because the algorithms will send people back to their bubbles, with minimal engagement and opportunity to listen and learn. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/35 "2022-04-19T19:05:54Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > I was was just throwing up shit in the air when i suggested some sort of strike and just kidding about the tech block bill. Do you have any suggestions? Clone Elizabeth Warren and get the clones elected to the Senate in 34+ states. Same with Katie Porter in the House. And nominate John Stewart for Secretary of State. Beyond that I have nothing but the despair of starring into the existential void of emergent fascism. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/36 "2022-04-19T19:18:28Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > the despair of starring into the existential void of emergent fascism. Title of my sex tape. ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/37 "2022-04-19T19:25:16Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Beyond that I have nothing but the despair of starring into the existential void of emergent fascism. This is pretty much where I am. I fear that nothing is going to stop our slide until we are a full blown fascist dictatorship and probably in the not too distant future. Then nothing short of the 2nd American Revolution is going to dislodge it. I really hope I’m wrong, but if you had told me 20 years ago we’d be where we are right now I would have said “no fucking way”. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/38 "2022-04-19T19:42:20Z")
One thing I’ve heard that sometimes gives me a moment of relief from worry is the idea that they wouldn’t be going to these insane lengths if they weren’t desperate and didn’t feel they had to. We had the most voters ever come out, not because of love for Joe Biden, but to stop this shit. I hope that we can rise up and stop this fascist nightmare. They sure aren’t going to stop trying until they are stomped out though. Either by the legal system or the ballot box. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/39 "2022-04-19T23:13:39Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Also keep in mind the Republicans are always on the wrong side of history (women’s suffrage, racial segregation, marriage equality, safety standards on cars, reproductive rights, etc., etc…). It may seem like they are winning battles here and there, but they are losing the culture war long-term. LGBTQ rights will come about in the next few years and all these asinine restrictive laws states are passing will be wiped away. Although I don’t share your optimistic time line, I think that this is a key point. The last six or so years has been the equivalent of the battle of the bulge. The left has been winning the culture war hard and fast. The idea the transgendered people could appear in the media as anything other than the butt of crude joke is only a few years old. Now the trend is to fully accept their identity as part of inclusive diversity. What we are seeing now is the reaction of large but backwards minority that is suffering cultural whiplash, and so is motivated to fight for what it sees as an existential battle. Unfortunately, realizing that time isn’t on their side has driven them to take desperate measures and take whatever means necessary to enshrine the vestiges of their power in perpetuity. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058/40 "2022-04-20T00:06:04Z")
I think that some people have lost sight of history. How long did it take for women’s suffrage? For actual suffrage for Black people? Or Native Americans? How long for emancipation of Black or female people? For equality of marriages? For actual enforcement of anti-discrimination? These were all _decades_-long struggles. Progress is slow and uneven. Setbacks are disheartening. Yet persistence wins. So persist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-fight-back-when-will-that-line-be-drawn/963058.md?page=3)