# Will we ever find a ‘solution’ to sleep?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 10, 2005, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359 "2005-11-10T05:48:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@FlippyFly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlippyFly)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/1 "2005-11-10T05:48:12Z")
Will we ever find a ‘solution’ to sleep?
Is it technically possible that we may someday not have to sleep anymore? Will science ever find a mechanical, pharmaceutical, or genetic way to alter our biology into a 24/7 machine? Is this being researched?
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### Author:  [@Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greenback)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/2 "2005-11-10T05:55:04Z")
Before I went to a psychiastrist, I was down to 1-2 hours a night 🙂
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### Author:  [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/3 "2005-11-10T06:01:47Z")
I say not likely. No one even knows why we need to sleep in the first place. Our other major organs might do somewhat OK without sleep but our brain won’t. Sleep appears to be a time for some type of reorganization and storage of information. You can induce periods of no sleep with drugs or in other ways but things tend to go downhill quickly. Side effects range from hallucinations to lack of coordination to shut down of other body systems.
We can get cocky about the fact that we can artificially affect the body in a lot of ways but re-engineering a fundamental part of the brain is not on the horizon.
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/4 "2005-11-10T06:05:16Z")
As I understand it, sleep ( specifically, dreaming ) appears to be necessary to mental health. It would likely take radical alteration/enhancement of the brain to do anything about it.
As of now, the elimination of sleep is an automatic death sentence, such as Fatal Familial Insomnia, an inherited prion disease.
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### Author:  [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/5 "2005-11-10T06:44:13Z")
Sleeping is so fuckin awesome that I have no idea why anyone would want to eliminate it. Since I began working swing shift, I have been indoctrinated into the joys of lengthy sleep episodes and instant (as soon as my tired head hits the pillow) REM.
Besides, certain factions of the government would be so quick to force us wage slaves into any sleep elimination methods that were invented. Maybe it’s best not to push the issue.
Um, by the way, there is such a thing as FATAL INSOMNIA!?!?!?? Aaaaaaahhhhh!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
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### Author:  [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/6 "2005-11-10T06:52:30Z")
My first reaction was the same as **ggurl’s**. Sleep is great! Why would anyone want to find a ‘solution’ to it?
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### Author:  [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/7 "2005-11-10T07:05:21Z")
> [@Cunctator](#):
>
> My first reaction was the same as **ggurl’s**. Sleep is great! Why would anyone want to find a ‘solution’ to it?
To increase productivity? I can think of a substantial number of things I’d like to do but simply don’t have time to: if I had even those 5-6 extra hours, I’d get more of them accomplished.
Also, sleeping is not pleasant for everyone.
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### Author:  [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/8 "2005-11-10T07:20:08Z")
I could use an extra 6 hours a day to intend to get a bunch of stuff done but really surf on the internet and watch reruns of law and order
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/9 "2005-11-10T07:39:11Z")
> [@ggurl](#):
>
> Sleeping is so fuckin awesome that I have no idea why anyone would want to eliminate it. Since I began working swing shift, I have been indoctrinated into the joys of lengthy sleep episodes and instant (as soon as my tired head hits the pillow) REM.
You’re lucky; I _hate_sleep. It’s time consuming, and I feel terrible when I wake up. Just not a morning person.
> [@ggurl](#):
>
> Um, by the way, there is such a thing as FATAL INSOMNIA!?!?!?? Aaaaaaahhhhh!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
[Yes, there is.](http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec06/ch090/ch090c.html)
> [@](#):
>
> Fatal familial insomnia is a prion disease that interferes with sleep, leading to deterioration of mental function.
>
> Fatal familial insomnia is a genetic disease, due to a specific mutation in the PrPc gene. However, the disease can occur spontaneously, without a mutation. This form is called sporadic fatal insomnia. Fatal familial insomnia and sporadic fatal insomnia differ from other prion diseases because they affect predominantly one area of the brain, the thalamus, which influences sleep.
>
> The disease usually begins between the ages of 40 and 60 but may begin in a person’s late 30s. Most often, it runs in families. At first, people may have minor difficulties falling asleep and occasional problems with muscle movements. Eventually, they lose the ability to sleep. Other changes include muscle twitching, rapid heart rate, and dementia. Death usually occurs after about 7 to 36 months of illness. No treatment is available.
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### Author:  [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/10 "2005-11-10T08:17:44Z")
Anyone see this in the latest (Nov 2005) issue of _Scientific American_?
> [@](#):
>
> **No Sleep, No Problem**
> Exhausted police and hospital workers could someday benefit from a compound observed to perk up sleep-deprived rhesus monkeys. Neurobiologists at the Wake Forest University School of Medicine administered the chemical, called CX717, to 11 monkeys after keeping them awake for 30 to 36 hours (with music, treats, and other stimuli). After receiving the compound, the sleep-deprived animals performed normally at a memory task requiring them to pick out an image matching one they had seen up to 30 seconds before. Scans revealed that the drug reverted their brain activity to that of their normal resting state, the group reports in the August 22 _Public Library of Science, Biology_. Moreover, the chemical boosted the performance of rested monkeys by up to 15 percent. In May, Cortex Pharmaceuticals, the maker of the compound, also reported that the drug improved performance in 16 sleep-deprived male volunteers, but the research is still unpublished.
Baby steps, people…baby steps.
I wonder what the long term effects of such a compound would be. According to its [wiki page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CX717) it has entered “Phase II” of the FDA clinical trials…whatever that means.
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### Author:  [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/11 "2005-11-10T08:24:26Z")
I’d also like to add the main reason you love sleep is because you are usually _tired_ when you start, and _rested_ when you are done. If we engineered ourselves to no longer need sleep, then you would get nothing from sleeping, other than losing 5-8 hours of a day, and dreams. Granted, dreams are sometimes nice, but if you were always 100% as rested as you are when you have a god night’s sleep, would you be willing to lose those hours jsut for the _chance_ to have/remember a nice dream? Sure, maybr a few times a week that might be fun, but on the average, I think it would be better to not need sleep, **provided** that all the CEOs and company presidents of the world wouldn’t suddenly decide we should all work an extra six hours with no pay increase. Of course, odds are, all these corporate bastards will bride (oops, I mean “fund the campaign of”) the congressman to have a standard work week set to 80 hours, on the basis that the 40 hour week was a product of needing sleep and rest. Since we don’t need those 8 hours every night, we should all work eight more hours to be more productive Americans. And no need to pay us more, because we are at work not spending money. :rolleyes:
So basically the more I think about it the more I think it’s a bad idea if it ever becomes possible. 😛
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### Author:  [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/12 "2005-11-10T08:31:22Z")
> [@mstay](#):
>
> According to its [wiki page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CX717) it has entered “Phase II” of the FDA clinical trials…whatever that means.
Go [here](http://www.mesolung.org/clinical_trials/phases.html) for info on FDA trail phases. Basically, phase I is determining how much drug to give a person, where, and for how long. Phase II is putting that info to test, then going back and modifying it to get better results. Phase III is a long process where they get info such as what other drugs not to take with it, whjat conditions you shouldn’t have if you take it, etc…
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/13 "2005-11-10T09:13:51Z")
All (or nearly so) mammals sleep and it’s quite common in other vertebrates; From this, I would infer that it’s something deeply buried in our physiological makeup, rather than something just pasted over the top that we could easily strip away.
Chances are that it’s inextricably entwined with a load of other functions; development and genetics is like that; hardly anything has a sole function, so removing something often stops other things from working properly too.
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/14 "2005-11-10T10:19:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Sleeping is so fuckin awesome that I have no idea why anyone would want to eliminate it.
Yes the person who invents such a thing will mysteriously disappear that the formula lost.
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### Author:  [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/15 "2005-11-10T13:28:29Z")
> [@](#):
>
> To increase productivity? I can think of a substantial number of things I’d like to do but simply don’t have time to: if I had even those 5-6 extra hours, I’d get more of them accomplished.
If this ever happens, we will soon find that our workload increased to fill the extra hours. Work days would be 15 hours long and unemployment would shoot up because two people have enough time to do the work of three. Crime rates would skyrocket with all those idle hands out on the streets. Automobile accidents would increase because at least one, possibly both rush hour commutes happen during darkness. Utility costs would rise with the increase in need for artificial light.
Get back to sleep, people!
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/16 "2005-11-10T13:54:24Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#):
>
> If this ever happens, we will soon find that our workload increased to fill the extra hours. Work days would be 15 hours long and unemployment would shoot up because two people have enough time to do the work of three.
Except that there will be more jobs because more time being awake to do things means more time _being a consumer and creating market demand_.
> [@](#):
>
> Crime rates would skyrocket with all those idle hands out on the streets.
Except that burglars will no longer be so confident that home owners and their neighbours will be asleep or out of their homes; con men will not be able to take advantage of weary, off-guard commuters, because they won’t be weary; shoplifters won’t be able to rely on staff vigilance waning at the end of a shift. etc.
> [@](#):
>
> Automobile accidents would increase because at least one, possibly both rush hour commutes happen during darkness.
Why would there even _be_ a rush hour anymore?
[quote]
Utility costs would rise with the increase in need for artificial light.\*OK, you have a point here, just the one, but I think people would find a way to balance this out sensibly.
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/17 "2005-11-10T14:18:35Z")
I’m a morning person; I never feel tired in the evenings (even if I didn’t sleep the night before) but feel horribly tired in the mornings, so i’d be all for some kind of no-sleep thing. I tried once to “wean” myself off sleep…yeah, that didn’t work. ☹
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### Author:  [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/18 "2005-11-10T14:37:47Z")
I think we need to be sure not to confuse ‘sleepyness’ with ‘tiredness.’ Even without the need for sleep, would not our bodies require some time to recover from the fatique of daily physical activity? Sleeping is as good a way to pass that time as anything I can imagine.
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### Author:  [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/19 "2005-11-10T19:29:59Z")
Interesting that this should come up. Just the other day, the [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/08/science/08slee.html) had an article about sleep. Note: You may not be able to get to this without a (free) account, but I don’t know how to let you get at it without one.
The article leads off with an account of some research on the sleep habits and needs of iguanas.
> [@](#):
>
> These scientists in Terre Haute hope the iguanas will also help shed some light on an even more fundamental question: why sleep even exists.
>
> “Sleep has attracted a tremendous amount of attention in science, but we really don’t know what sleep is,” said Steven Lima, a biologist at Indiana State.
> [@](#):
>
> Today animals sleep in many different ways: brown bats for 20 hours a day, for example, and giraffes for less than 2. To understand why people sleep the way they do, scientists need an explanation powerful enough to encompass the millions of other species that sleep as well.
Some animals apparently sleep with only half their brains at a time, leaving the other half to be on the watch for danger.
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### Author:  [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)
#### Post date: [November 10, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-find-a-solution-to-sleep/330359/20 "2005-11-10T20:31:14Z")
Yes we will. I don’t know if we’d want to though.
I remember watching a TV show about 10-15 years ago about a man who suffers from a disorder where he never sleeps, however the guy was alive, appeared healthy and was mentally competent enough to become an artist. So we already have people alive and cognitively competent who do not sleep, or who only sleep a few hours a week.
I myself once suffered from serotonin syndrome for a few days. One of the symptoms of serotonin syndrome is going into REM while awake so for about five days I only slept about 3 hours total and didn’t feel tired because I was going into REM while still awake.
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