# will we ever live in a matrix **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648 "2002-09-09T13:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/1 "2002-09-09T13:55:37Z")
Virtual reality offers many advantages over real reality. Among them More freedom to live the way you want to live Greatly lowering dependence on limited natural resources because computer generated luxuries would be available to all. Instant travel An end to political or interpersonal repression (as long as some reaaaaaaaallly unhackable codes control the matrix). You wouldn’t be able to control anyone physically in a computer generated matrix without their permission. Will we ever look at the idea seriously (like in 300 years or so)? ---
**Author:** ![SwimmingwithChickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@SwimmingwithChickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwimmingwithChickens)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/2 "2002-09-09T14:10:06Z")
Doubtful. Nothing is unhackable nor uncorruptable. Plus this sort of escapism is akin to sucide in that you will no longer be a functional member of society when you join the matrix. Perhap temporary trips into a virtual world maybe possible, but I doubt anything like the Matrix. ---
**Author:** ![Montezuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3be4f8/32.png) [@Montezuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Montezuma)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/3 "2002-09-09T15:25:32Z")
I even doubt virtual reality will ever become that convincing ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/4 "2002-09-09T16:36:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Calculus of Logic \* > Instant travel > \*\* To where? I would seriously doubt that we will ever have a Matrix like society where people’s bodies are in storage while their minds are hooked into some giant VR system that is indistinguishable from reality. What’s the point? If you can do all that, you mind as well store the minds themselves in the system and just chuck the useless bodies (contrary to the movie, there are a lot more efficient energy sources than acres of human batteries. That said, there will always be a need for VR simulations for any number of tasks - entertainment, military, training, remote piloting of robots into hazardous environments. The more realistic these simulations, the better. Even if its possible, you probably don’t want them completely indistinguishable from reality. Probably cause some kind of psychosis or something, ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/5 "2002-09-09T18:28:47Z")
[Perhaps](http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?m=6) we already do. . . > [@](#): > > what if people in the future create role-playing simulations where the people in it do not know that it is a simulation? This premise naturally leads to a premise even more thought-provoking: future people might create simulations of a world much like our world. If so, how sure can each of us now be that we are not now living in such a role-playing simulation? > **:cut:** > Obviously we cannot now be sure that we are not living in a simulation. The more likely our descendants are to be rich, long-lasting, and interested in simulating us, the more simulations of people like us we should expect there to be on average, relative to real people like us. And so the more we expect our descendants to be rich like this, the more we should expect that we are in fact living in a simulation [Bostom 2001]. Interesting article, no? What if we are a simulation? How should we behave? > [@](#): > > If you might be living in a simulation then all else equal you should care less about others, live more for today, make your world look more likely to become rich, expect to and try more to participate in pivotal events, be more entertaining and praiseworthy, and keep the famous people around you happier and more interested in you. Kind of the opposite of Christianity and the very definition of Capitalism. Kind of like playing a casino game called “Choose your morality!” where you either assume a god who likes you will come up in the deck later, or wager it all on this life. Maybe we’re just a big game of Sim Universe. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/6 "2002-09-09T19:18:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by dalovindj \* > Interesting article, no? What if we are a simulation? How should we behave?_\* I guess we should behave how we think we’re supposed to so we don’t mess up the experiment:) A simulator that is indistinguishable from reality (in the sense that the person can not recognize the diference) and where the participant cannot alter the parameters of the simulation might as well be reality. A simulator allows us to model scenarios or actions that we would not normally be able to perform in real life - flying a fighter plane, shooting zombies, whatever. If I knew that this “reality” was a simulator that I could reset or alter at will, I would try all kinds of crazy crap I would not attempt in a world where there were actual consequences. Since we have nothing to indicate that we can “reset” this reality like ‘Groundhogs Day’ or ‘The Matrix’, we can only interact with it as if it is the real thing-which it probably is. ---
**Author:** ![Logical\_Phallacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Logical\_Phallacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Logical_Phallacy)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/7 "2002-09-09T20:35:32Z")
If the tech ever got released, who’s to say that world wouldn’t get just as fucked up as this one? Look at the net, its corrupted, controlled and censored. If I were you i’d stop daydreaming about some future universe and focus on making your current reality as enjoyable as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/8 "2002-09-10T05:07:09Z")
\*\*Look at the net, its corrupted, controlled and censored. \*\* Mind backing any of that up? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/9 "2002-09-10T05:12:13Z")
> [@](#): > > Greatly lowering dependence on limited natural resources because computer generated luxuries would be available to all. Um… people in virtual reality still need food. “The Matrix is telling me this tastes like turkey-jerkey” is all well and good for flavors, but in terms of providing your body with sustenance… well… you get the idea. > [@](#): > > Look at the net, its corrupted, controlled and censored. I’ll believe that the day places like the Stile Project are banned. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/10 "2002-09-10T06:34:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\*What if we are a simulation \*\* If one believes that : 1)At some point in the future, perfect simulations will be possible (they’ll have to include an unability to remember our life before the simulation began) and 1. Humanity will continue growing and expanding in the universe Then, it’s likely that we’re living in a simulation. I already considered this possibility, but it seems to me it’s as significant as the question : “was the world created yesterday?” or a ton of similar questions. If there’s no way for us to perveice the difference between our world and a simulated world then it doesn’t make a difference, and the question is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/11 "2002-09-10T07:03:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Then, it’s likely that we’re living in a simulation. Indeed, but it’s like the old idea of the Ether… by its very definition (that you outlined above), we’d never be able to measure beyond the simulation anyway, so why bother with it? ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/12 "2002-09-10T14:35:07Z")
Hey! I have to have a _reason_ to bother with far out topics now? OK. Fine. The reason one should bother with the idea is that perhaps it’s possible to find out for sure, and perhaps with that knowledge, figure out a way to jury-rig the simulation. I could be like Professor Moriarty on the holodeck. Only less evil. :_checks mirror_: Well . . . if not less evil, would you believe better looking? DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/13 "2002-09-10T16:12:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\*Hey! I have to have a _reason_ to bother with far out topics now? OK. Fine. The reason one should bother with the idea is that perhaps it’s possible to find out for sure, and perhaps with that knowledge, figure out a way to jury-rig the simulation. > > I could be like Professor Moriarty on the holodeck. > > Only less evil. > \*\* If we have decided to spend some time in a so realistic simulation, and made sure that we wouldn’t remember it’s a simulation, surely we have make sure we won’t be able to find out. We probably have paid plenty of money for the experience, and didn’t want it to be spoiled…(now let’s hope we didn’t choose the “nuclear holocaust” scenario when we signed up with Simulife Entertainments Inc.). If, on the other hand, it’s not a leisure simulation for lazy bored wannabes, but an evil plot by Professor Moriarty, it’s best not to find out. Moriarty will certainly unplug you when he’ll realize you have doubts… So definitely, in both cases, it’s better to pretend we’re living in a real world…(plus…who knows…perhaps it’s _actually_ a real world, as unlikely as it may seems that such an absurd world could be for real) ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/14 "2002-09-10T16:32:15Z")
I think you are missing my point, \*\*clairobscur \*\*. I’m saying what if you are one of the _fake_ people in a simulation. Basically, you could be in some one elses simulation. Not the main player. Not only are you in a simulation, you yourself are simulated. The goal becomes to hijack the simulation cause we’re all done when it gets turned off either way. At least you guys are. If anyone is real it must be me. I’ll be the one waking up at the VR center while you cats disappear in a poof. Best start working on that hack . . . DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/15 "2002-09-10T16:36:11Z")
Of course, there’s another hypothesis if you assume that there’s plenty of life in the universe and realistic simulations are feasable : Wurtz meeting Gartz at the beginning of the work-cycle : -What did you do during the century-end? -There was no seats left on the Andromeda shuttle and anyway there was a galactic storm so I decided to stay burrow and play with a human-simul. -Human? What’s on Oort is that? -It was an intelligent (sort of) race which went down the toilets a couple of billions years ago. -And what kind of simulation was it? -A comedy. You wouldn’t believe how pathetic they were. I laughed my tail off and I still have my antennas all tangled… ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/16 "2002-09-10T16:47:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dalovindj \* > \*\* Not only are you in a simulation, you yourself are simulated. The goal becomes to hijack the simulation cause we’re all done when it gets turned off either way. j \*\* \*\*Dalovindj \*\*, I’m not a simulation, I’m a simul-moderator. So, you should better stop messing up with the experiment, or else, as much as I would hate to do so, I’ll have to file a report to the simul-administrator and get you banned. ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/17 "2002-09-10T17:36:16Z")
Wow. I hope you get more than a coffee mug and or T-Shirt for _that_. Welcome to GD. Come and debate whether or not there really is a Mod, and if it really love us. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/18 "2002-09-10T17:41:36Z")
Wow. I hope you get more than a coffee mug and or T-Shirt for _that_. Welcome to GD. Come and debate whether or not there really is a Mod, and whether or not a loving Mod would ban us for eternity. . . DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-live-in-a-matrix/127648/19 "2002-09-10T17:46:01Z")
The hampsters will pay.