# Will we ever shed our religiocentric views **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 8, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-shed-our-religiocentric-views/662963 "2013-07-08T19:16:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-shed-our-religiocentric-views/662963/81 "2013-07-12T05:08:57Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Why are you interested? What is your goal in your questioning? Why this dogged determination? > > Is this some sort of atheist Witnessing? We are, after all, in the right forum. This is an attempt to get a straight answer after being accused of > [@Algher](#): > > …selecting a particular translation and interpretation. I pointed out where I got my interpretation from-the fact that every single version of the Bible I could find said that the _only_ way to Heaven is through Jesus, and that this was a direct response to the very verse you used to support the idea that there _wasn’t_ just one way. > [@Algher](#): > > Jesus says he can get us a room at Dad’s (keeping the Trinity separate still). He is implying both that there is room for all, but also that there is room for everyone. He states he is the way as well of course. I would just like to know which version of the Bible you are using to get that interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-shed-our-religiocentric-views/662963/82 "2013-07-12T14:57:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is an attempt to get a straight answer after being accused ofI pointed out where I got my interpretation from-the fact that every single version of the Bible I could find said that the _only_ way to Heaven is through Jesus, and that this was a direct response to the very verse you used to support the idea that there _wasn’t_ just one way. I would just like to know which version of the Bible you are using to get that interpretation. You don’t seem to understand the difference between translation and interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-shed-our-religiocentric-views/662963/83 "2013-07-12T15:07:31Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > You don’t seem to understand the difference between translation and interpretation. And you refuse to answer any queries about either the translation you use or the interpretation you prefer. BTW, I’ve been looking all over the web for those Biblical scholars that you said support your interpretation 0f John 14:2, and found nothing so far. Can you perhaps help me here? ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-shed-our-religiocentric-views/662963/84 "2013-07-12T15:32:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And you refuse to answer any queries about either the translation you use or the interpretation you prefer. BTW, I’ve been looking all over the web for those Biblical scholars that you said support your interpretation 0f John 14:2, and found nothing so far. Can you perhaps help me here? You still seem to be having a problem with the definition of interpretation as separate from translation. I brought up translation because it is interesting to me how there can be so many ways to read one word in the Bible, due to shifting language and cultures over time. It makes for a very interesting line of thinking. I have told you how I personally interpret a single line - the many rooms line. I have said that, to me (and others), that leaves open the possibility that other faiths might have a way to a room as well. As I have stated - I know one way, but I am not arrogant enough to assume that I know all ways. That final decision is up to God. You chose to focus on another line - the one true way line. Good for you. Ride on that. Make that your watchword. I have already said that there is a contradiction there. I am willing to live with contradictions in the Bible. I am not a literalist. I have listened to sermons from scholars (by scholar I do mean those with advanced degrees in the area of religion) talk about the many rooms line, the one true way line, the issue of other Gods as mentioned in the Commandments, etc. Their interpretation - or at least their opening of possibilities works for me, so I use it. Still not sure what your personal mission is here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-shed-our-religiocentric-views/662963/85 "2013-07-12T15:45:32Z")
Focusing on the context instead of a single word. I’m not focusing on a single line-in fact, I posted John 14:1 _through_ 14:6(the whole conversation) to make my point. Again you claim that there are scholars that agree with you…without naming any of them. I now realize that you won’t(or can’t) name them, so I won’t ask again. Likewise, I won’t ask you again how you came by your interpretation or what Biblical translation you prefer, lest we hear even more cries of “personal mission” and “Atheist witnessing” in lieu of actual answers. I shall no longer “persecute” you on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Aizle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Aizle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aizle)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-shed-our-religiocentric-views/662963/86 "2013-07-12T15:51:50Z")
I think the OP is asking the wrong question. It really should be when are we going to shed our acceptance of claims with insufficient evidence as “fact”. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-shed-our-religiocentric-views/662963/87 "2013-07-12T16:09:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Focusing on the context instead of a single word. I’m not focusing on a single line-in fact, I posted John 14:1 _through_ 14:6(the whole conversation) to make my point. Again you claim that there are scholars that agree with you…without naming any of them. I now realize that you won’t(or can’t) name them, so I won’t ask again. Likewise, I won’t ask you again how you came by your interpretation or what Biblical translation you prefer, lest we hear even more cries of “personal mission” and “Atheist witnessing” in lieu of actual answers. I shall no longer “persecute” you on this matter. I won’t, because giving the name of my Minister and a few others that I have known and worked with would be giving out far more personal information that I chose on a public forum. The other scholars might not be on the web. There was one group who I met with for a week at Iona in the mid-90s, another group at a mixed faith retreat after 9/11. I don’t understand why you use scare quotes around “Atheist Witnessing” - that is, after all, what you are doing isn’t it? I have not claimed persecution either, why do you suddenly bring it up? Finally, an interpretation is how someone reads a passage of the Bible and interpets it into their daily life. I guess you couldn’t figure that out. I have not claimed persecution here - so why do you bring it up? It is as if you are trying to build a narrative that fits into your personal worldview. I came into this thread to mention that there are plenty of Christians who have no problem with people of other faiths. We don’t see it as an Us vs. Them game, where we are keeping score. I mentioned one line in the Bible that helps me (and others) reconcile that stance. I admitted that the following lines push back. What more do you want? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-shed-our-religiocentric-views/662963/88 "2013-07-12T16:21:32Z")
> [@Aizle](#): > > I think the OP is asking the wrong question. > > It really should be when are we going to shed our acceptance of claims with insufficient evidence as “fact”. I’m not sure the OP even had that question in mind-it seems like he was commenting more on the “Western” religions, because he mentioned that he thought India’s religious environment was more open to other religious ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-shed-our-religiocentric-views/662963/89 "2013-07-22T13:36:14Z")
**Carcasm** , it is possible that Jesus was wrong in his statement. He was, after all, half human. _You_ condemn “cherry-picking,” yet do it yourself. Cherry pick all you want, but just don’t suggest that the verses you picked are the only ones on the subject. As I’ve mentioned before, Billy Graham said that he believes all will go to heaven. “Many sheep have I which are not of this fold.” I never dreamed that I would hear the Rev. Graham say that as a response. The verses sound contradictory to me, and that’s why there is a necessity for choosing the verses which make most sense to me and others based on our own experiences. That doesn’t mean that I always choose what is right in the eyes of others. And the truth for them may be just that. I have also stated before that everyone has a path to enlightment or God and that includes atheists. Naturally, that would include agnostics too. I don’t think SDMB posters seem to sneer at others as _some_ of the atheists do here. And only a few criticize them for having non-religious beliefs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-ever-shed-our-religiocentric-views/662963.md?page=4)