# Will we see a return to sensibility re: airline security? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 15, 2008, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011 "2008-10-15T06:35:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/21 "2008-10-16T05:36:32Z")
It is a bright shiny show of how your government is trying to take care of you. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/22 "2008-10-16T16:52:25Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > It is a bright shiny show of how your government is trying to take care of you. The prime directive of any bureaucracy is to maintain and grow the bureaucracy. They ain’t going to go away any time in our lifetimes. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/23 "2008-10-16T17:27:22Z")
> [@WoodenTaco](#): > > Bureaucrats aren’t elected and their actions are really rarely identified with a particular person. Can you name the head of the TSA off the top of your head? Could you have named the director of FEMA in 2004? The one who did a heck of a job? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/24 "2008-10-16T18:05:27Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > And seeing the big back ups in queues getting into the "secured areas at O’Hare, Dulles and Denver, to name three, I wonder why the bad guys don’t just target the checkpoints. The checkpoint in Denver, to my untrained eye, seems like one of the most dangerous places to be. Huge crowd, with no one to check who is coming up with a cart full of bags. You’re right, but I guess the TSA solution would be to do what I encountered at Istanbul recently, where the whole building is a secure area - the first thing you meet on entering is a full scale baggage x-ray/metal detector check. Then nothing more until one for the passengers of individual flights. What this does depend on, however, is a building designed with modern security checks in mind, which was the case there but certainly seems to be least the case in the big US airports. European ones, having for various reasons worked with greater security threats for longer periods, had less adjustment to make in order to function in the post-9/11 situation. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/25 "2008-10-16T18:44:30Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > It wasn’t a one in a bazillion luck shot. The rules back then allowed knives on the plane. Getting the knives on board wasn’t the lucky part. I mean the whole operation from flying lessons to the hijackings went off with nary a hitch. None of the cells got busted, most of the fake IDs checked out, etc. My understanding is that several hijackers boarded without even being asked for ID. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/26 "2008-10-16T23:05:00Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > … most of the fake IDs checked out, etc. My understanding is that several hijackers boarded without even being asked for ID. From my understanding, the hijackers were all in the country legally, or at least originally they were legal, and as such had legitimate IDs. Which is why I never understood the rigorous scrutiny of a driver’s license. Sure, here you go Mr. TSA inspector. Here is my Florida Driver’s License with my name address, etc. There is nothing in there that says “good guy” or “will hijack plane”. Or is the idea that a seasoned terrorist will be on the watch list? Then all they have to do is go to the mosque and recruit the 17-20 year old true “believer” who has never had a brush with the law and present his valid driver’s license, while the seasoned terrorist plans the strategy behind the scenes. Makes no sense, and just, as George said, only serves to make white people feel safe.. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/27 "2008-10-17T00:15:17Z")
I’m not sure I agree with 9/11 being “a one in a billion lucky shot.” They tried to hijack four planes. They hijacked four planes. They tried to use them to hit four targets. They hit three of the four. It required lots of planning and preparation, yes. But once the day came, I’d say they would have been reasonably confident of pulling it off. And they did (mostly). ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/28 "2008-10-17T00:32:43Z")
Before 911 the airlines were in charge of security. The old deregulation idea. You can trust the companies to regulate themselves. They had obsolete and often not working metal detectors. They had poorly trained and badly paid people checking passengers and luggage. They just took it the cheap way and we paid for it. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/29 "2008-10-17T02:25:30Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Before 911 the airlines were in charge of security. The old deregulation idea. You can trust the companies to regulate themselves. They had obsolete and often not working metal detectors. They had poorly trained and badly paid people checking passengers and luggage. They just took it the cheap way and we paid for it. The thing is none of that matters. It is still not that hard to get a weapon on a plane. There was a story a few weeks ago about two guys who drove out to pick up a friend from a private plane. Security let them in the gate without searching them or their car. They realized that they were no on the main tarmac with full access to all the planes. If they had the right jump suits and something that looked like a badge from a distance they could have gotten onto any plane and planted a weapon for a passenger to use. They reported it and the the TSA response was that this wasn’t a security breach, it was SOP. The bottom line is that what is preventing another 9/11 is the fact that the pilots will no longer open the door and the passengers would revolt. Jonathan ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/30 "2008-10-17T02:46:34Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They had poorly trained and badly paid people checking passengers and luggage. Thank God _those_ days are over. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/31 "2008-10-17T04:01:26Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Thank God _those_ days are over. They claim to train and pay well. I have heard they have downsized the security now. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/32 "2008-10-17T04:39:28Z")
You have to remember 9/11 happened because no one ever dreamed someone would actually use a jet as a missile. If they had known the passengers could’ve easily taken back the plane from the hijackers. Sure with the knives they may have killed people but not taken over. Hijackings are pretty much over 'cause the next person who tries this will get attacked immediately by all the passenger. Reminds me of _All In The Family_ where Archie says he could solve the hijacking problem. He’d simply arm all the passengers. Just pass the pistols out at the beginning of the flight and collect them after they land ---
**Author:** ![kdeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b487fb/32.png) [@kdeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kdeus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/33 "2008-10-19T10:56:27Z")
Security is the new bureaucracy, it only increases. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/34 "2008-10-19T11:15:28Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Couldn’t we just put up big plastic boxes in the airport and pretend they magically check you for explosives? Win-win! So…the same amount of hassle, but without the chance of actually catching a terrorist? There seems to be a flaw in your plan. ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2008, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/35 "2008-10-19T13:59:07Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > It’s not going to happen because such a decision would require someone, somewhere, to take responsibility for it, and the voting public does not support subtle improvements to nearly the extent that it punishes dramatic failure. > > All it takes is one incident in which one plane is damaged that could conceivably have been caught by the draconian screening, and the administrator who made the decision, the politician who appointed him, and (probably) the airline that was unlucky enough to be the target will all be punished severely. > > It takes no personal responsibility to continue with the current system, stupid and inefficient as it is, while it would be a huge personal risk for anyone to change it. Now THAT is a great post. Not only with regards to government involvement in airport screening, but government involvement in just about anything. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/36 "2008-10-20T08:14:11Z")
> [@kdeus](#): > > Security is the new bureaucracy, it only increases. that’s not true. Originally they restricted such items as nail clippers. To the op. Security measures are based on information the public will never see. Therefore, it’s difficult to judge the level of risk assigned to the restrictions imposed. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/37 "2008-10-20T08:47:00Z")
I must be just about alone in having no problem with airline security. I have not been delayed and am thankful something is in place. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011/38 "2008-10-20T14:20:24Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > The thing is none of that matters. It is still not that hard to get a weapon on a plane. No kidding. Every time I fly they hand me a metal knife with the meal on the airplane. I got a smaller penknife confiscated by security but then they give me a full sized knife on the airplane. The whole thing is beyond idiotic. “Terrorism” is the communism of our day. It is the boogey man used to justify all sorts of excesses by the government. To spy and keep in check any opposition to the power of the government. [Activists Mislisted as Terrorists](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/17/AR2008101702898_pf.html) They were mot “mislisted” , they were “listed” as terrorists and they still are being denied the right to fully challenge that. What about the no-fly secret lists? The whole thing stinks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-a-return-to-sensibility-re-airline-security/468011.md?page=1)