# Will we see totalitarianism in Europe again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715 "2012-05-22T14:21:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715/21 "2012-05-23T21:26:20Z")
223 howitzers - just what you need to keep protestors quiet. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715/22 "2012-05-23T21:32:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Depending on how you define Europe and Totalitarianism, it might exist in Europe now. > > [Belarus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belarus) Seriously, this. “Belarus has been called “the last true remaining dictatorship in the heart of Europe” by the former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.” Belarus has been ruled by Alexander Lukashenko almost since the breakup of the Soviet Union. Some Lukashenko quotes: > [@](#): > > My position and the state will never allow me to become a dictator, but an authoritarian style of rule is characteristic of me, and I have always admitted it. You need to control the country, and the main thing is not to ruin people’s lives. > Statement (August 2003), as quoted in BBC - Profile: Alexander Lukashenko (9 January 2007) > We have rigged the latest election. 93.5 per cent have voted for Lukashenko. But they say it is not a European outcome. We have made it 86 per cent. > Press conference for Ukrainian journalists (November 2006), as quoted in “Lukashenka Must be Dismissed From Office For Rigging Presidential Elections Results” in Charter97 (23 November 2006) While there are elections, they’re characterised by massive vote rigging and violent repression of the opposition. Here’s wikipedia’s take on the 2010 election: > [@](#): > > After the December completion of the 2010 presidential election, Lukashenko was elected to a fourth straight term with nearly 80% of the vote in elections. The runner-up opposition leader Andrei Sannikov received less than 3% of the vote; independent observers criticized the election as fraudulent. When opposition protesters took to the streets in Minsk, many people, including most rival presidential candidates, were beaten and arrested by the state militia.[81] Many of the candidates, including Sannikov, were sentenced to prison or house arrest for terms typically over four years.[82][83] Six months later amidst an unprecedented economic crisis, activists utilized social networking to initiate a fresh round of protests characterized by wordless hand-clapping.[84] I’d say Belarus is about on a par with Zimbabwe in terms of totalitarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715/23 "2012-05-23T22:05:07Z")
I guess I’m all alone in insisting on the distinction between totalitarian and authoritarian. [Totalitarianism - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism#Difference_between_authoritarian_and_totalitarian_regimes) ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715/24 "2012-05-23T22:11:57Z")
It seems to be in that rare category of authoritarian regimes not proped up by the USA. Must be Russia then. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715/25 "2012-05-24T00:32:22Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Sure, when a coup comes, there will be a lot of EU hand-wringing and crocodile tears before ‘reluctantly’ letting a non-democratic Greece remain part of the EU in exchange for a nebulous time-table for a ‘return to democracy’. I don’t agree with this part. There are lots of people in the EU that would love to see Greece leave the EU (or at least the eurozone) and cease to be their problem, but they won’t adopt that position because it would cause uncertainty with regards to many other member states that also have shaky finances. But if Greece had a military coup, that would be an excellent pretext to expel them without the implication that Italy or Spain might be next. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715/26 "2012-05-24T01:58:47Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Right, international capital is really going to let that happen. It ain’t quite omnipotent. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715/27 "2012-05-24T01:59:57Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I guess I’m all alone in insisting on the distinction between totalitarian and authoritarian. [Totalitarianism - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism#Difference_between_authoritarian_and_totalitarian_regimes) Which is Belarus, then? (I’m thinking totalitarian is a subspecies of authoritarian anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715/28 "2012-05-24T02:43:27Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > To show, as I reiterated, they have a well-equipped military. It’s not rocket surgery. Let’s see: you think Greece having a well-equipped military (which they really don’t) is evidence of a looming military coup (which it isn’t), but the % GDP spent on the military is something you mentioned for no reason at all. It’s not like it’s the money being spent on well-equipping the military. I agree; there definitely isn’t any rocket surgery going on here. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715/29 "2012-05-24T07:00:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It ain’t quite omnipotent. It’s a moot point, and not really on point because it doesn’t have to be. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715/30 "2012-05-24T11:42:45Z")
I dunno about Europe, but I do know that we have a wing of a political party in the US that advocates removing individual choice (in abortion questions), imposing a single religious standard (Christian), and rewriting history text books to reflect their particular point of view… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-we-see-totalitarianism-in-europe-again/622715.md?page=1)