# Will you be denied a security clearance if you have a DUI? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 5, 2006, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926 "2006-12-05T12:33:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/1 "2006-12-05T12:33:31Z")
I just joined a company that requires a Security Clearance. I brought one of the guys from my old job with me. He just confessed to me, with tears in his eyes, that he got a DUI earlier this year and is terrified that he will be denied his clearance. I told him that I didn’t know what happens, but that he should of course not lie about it and we would see together what happened. I also told him he can’t be the only one in the world who has been charged with DUI and needed clearance… Anyone know if if this is a deal breaker for him? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/2 "2006-12-05T12:51:38Z")
If he lies about it, he’s in trouble. I know of people who’ve received their security clearance (even Top Secret clearances) after having a DUI. The key point is to be honest on the application and in the interviews. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/3 "2006-12-05T13:20:40Z")
Earlier this year? Is he still on probation? What was the outcome of the case? Was he actually convicted of DUI? If he’s on probation or still on bail pending trial, then he will not get his clearance. I dont even think he can get an interim while on probation. A year is very recent. I dont see an issue after some time passes. But he is going to have problems with it being so recent. As **Monty** said, there are pleanty of people who hold Top Secrets who have had DUIs in the past. It’s only a misdemeanor afterall. For the record, I have a Security Clearance and a DUI so its not unheard of. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/4 "2006-12-05T13:42:13Z")
[QUOTE=Bear\_Nenno] Earlier this year? Is he still on probation? What was the outcome of the case? Was he actually convicted of DUI? If he’s on probation or still on bail pending trial, then he will not get his clearance. I dont even think he can get an interim while on probation. A year is very recent. I dont see an issue after some time passes. But he is going to have problems with it being so recent. As **Monty** said, there are pleanty of people who hold Top Secrets who have had DUIs in the past. It’s only a misdemeanor afterall. For the record, I have a Security Clearance and a DUI so its not unheard of. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure about the probation. I don’t \*think \*he was convicted of DUI because he tells me he is involved in a program that will allow him to have his record expunged once he completes it. But I don’t know the details of this program; he wa pretty upset this morning, apparently this has been weighing on his mind and he finally confessed to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/5 "2006-12-05T13:58:18Z")
The outcome of the trial is very important. If he’s doing some kind of pretrial intervention or taking classes mandated by the court, then the case is not ‘Closed’. Its not closed until he has sucessfully completed everything and is no longer under any court directed supervision or education. I’m not an expert on granting clearances, but I can’t imagine that he would get one if he has an open case. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/6 "2006-12-05T14:16:07Z")
BTW, when you say you just brought the guy with you from your old job… did he leave the old job yet? Have they already hired him pending a Clearance? What’s his status with both jobs? Is the new job a small company? Small in the sense that they would be willing to work with him and keep him around in another position until he can get a clearance? Or is it the type that will just turn him away at the first hint of Clearance denial? If its the latter, then if its not too late, I would suggest that he stay at the old job _at least_ until everything is satisfactorily completed with his DUI. Does he even have his license back? He should wait it out. Complete everything he needs, go to all the stupid classes and meetings, get his license back, get his life back on track and _then_ apply at the new job. Once he applies and gets denied, they probably wont take him or let him try again. If they do, it probably wouldn’t be for like 5 years or something. But if he just waits like another year he has a good chance of getting his clearance and getting his job. Once you get denied a clearance the first time, its a BITCH to get it at all or get a job that requires one. Because there’s that question on there “Have you ever been denied a Security Clearance?” Better to be able to say NO to that. Yes, I was arrested for DUI almost 2 years ago. The charges were reduced to reckless driving, and I satisfactorily completed all my courses and currently have a driver’s license and insurance. I have never applied for a clearance. Is not as bad as: Yes, I was arrested for DUI almost 2 years ago and I have previously been denied a Security Clearance. This is coming from personal experience. I’ve bit myself in the ass on two occassions. If he thinks there is a chance that he will be denied the clearance or the job, he should WAIT. Better to choose to wait for like a year now then to be FORCED to wait 5-7 years or lose the chance entirely… ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/7 "2006-12-05T14:51:11Z")
Here are a couple of cases I found on DUI and security clearances. None is directly on point, but they do demonstrate that it is a concern, especially if there is an unresolved case: [http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/02-22350.h1.html](http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/02-22350.h1.html) [http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/01-26137.h1.html](http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/01-26137.h1.html) [http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/02-05251.h1.html](http://www.dod.mil/dodgc/doha/industrial/02-05251.h1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/8 "2006-12-05T19:15:28Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] If he lies about it, he’s in trouble. I know of people who’ve received their security clearance (even Top Secret clearances) after having a DUI. The key point is to be honest on the application and in the interviews. [/QUOTE] Ditto. I work for a company in which most people have at least a Secret clearance. There are also a fair number of people with DUIs on record. (We get to hear stories about the good old salad days of the Cold War and Peacekeeper or Midgetman, where the guys used to go out to lunch on Friday, come back after two pitchers each and pass out in the parking lot. Good times.) If you don’t disclose, that’s going to be a big red flag. If you do…meh. Depending on other factors, it may or may not be an issue, but by itself it’s not a showstopper. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![comtnboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@comtnboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/comtnboy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/9 "2006-12-05T20:18:00Z")
Like the rest said, just be honest. My wife does this for a living. They end up approving most everyone sadly. I have heard of people with sexual and violent offenses on their record still getting approved in the end. I would not sweat it at all… ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/10 "2006-12-05T20:58:01Z")
When checking for security clearances, they’re looking for trustworthiness or lack thereof. They’re also looking for “hooks” that an enemy agent could use to blackmail you. Whether or not a particular crime is problem depends on the crime. DUI probably isn’t a problem, unless it points to chronic alcoholism. See **Gfactor** ’s links. I expect crimes like embezzlement or counterfeiting would be cause for quick and permanent denial. It’s important to note that you must _maintain_ the clearance by behaving appropriately once you have it. That means fulls disclosure of anything that might make the security people take a second glance at you. A scrupulously open and honest person with a bad habit is preferably to someone with a minor foible and keeps it hidden. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/11 "2006-12-05T22:12:51Z")
Didn’t stop Bush or Cheney, did it? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/12 "2006-12-05T22:46:03Z")
I would like the Canadian perspective. A DUI is a criminal offence in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/13 "2006-12-06T00:49:21Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] I would like the Canadian perspective. A DUI is a criminal offence in Canada. [/QUOTE] As it is in California… if you get charged with DUI more than three times in your life your fourth time automatically becomes a felony even if no injuries are involved. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/14 "2006-12-06T01:09:57Z")
[QUOTE=Napier] Didn’t stop Bush or Cheney, did it? [/QUOTE] **Napier** This is General Questions. Keep politics out of it. OK? **samclem** ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/15 "2006-12-06T11:28:38Z")
Oops. “Or any of the Kennedys?” Sorry… ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/16 "2006-12-06T12:59:14Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] I would like the Canadian perspective. A DUI is a criminal offence in Canada. [/QUOTE] It’s also a crime in America. We go to jail for it and everything. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/17 "2006-12-06T14:36:05Z")
[QUOTE=Bear\_Nenno] It’s also a crime in America. We go to jail for it and everything. [/QUOTE] Isn’t a Canadian DUI a felony charge? I’ve heard stories of guys going up north for fishing trips and the like who were turned away at the border because they had a DWI/DUI charge on their records. ---
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/18 "2006-12-06T15:06:46Z")
The OP mentioned that the offender was involved in a program that allows the record to be expunged once he completes it. From a recent article in the NY Times; > [@](#): > > But real expungement is becoming significantly harder to accomplish in the electronic age. Records once held only in paper form by law enforcement agencies, courts and corrections departments are now routinely digitized and sold in bulk to the private sector. Some commercial databases now contain more than 100 million criminal records. They are updated only fitfully, and expunged records now often turn up in criminal background checks ordered by employers and landlords. This article is restricted, but if you are a subscriber you can find it by searching for “court records expunged”. In short, it is probably wise to always fess up to things like this before they do the search. It probably won’t help you afterwards to say “But that was expunged!”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/19 "2006-12-06T15:16:35Z")
The important thing is _full disclosure._ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926/20 "2006-12-06T15:33:22Z")
[QUOTE=Cluricaun] I’ve heard stories of guys going up north for fishing trips and the like who were turned away at the border because they had a DWI/DUI charge on their records. [/QUOTE] This is true. If you have been convicted of DUI/DWI, [you are inadmissible to Canada](http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/faq-inadmissibility.html) unless you apply to the Canadian government for rehabilitation and pay the fees (from $200 to $1000, depending on the circumstances of your offense). If it is less than five years from your offense, you cannot receive rehabilitation, and you cannot travel to Canada. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-be-denied-a-security-clearance-if-you-have-a-dui/382926.md?page=2)