# Will you give Donald Trump a chance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2017, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529 "2017-01-19T06:24:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/121 "2017-01-19T23:55:36Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > God’s reasons are not ours, and God has ordained Trump to be elected. Donald Trump is there for a divine reason, that, I believe is to bring forth the hatred and bitterness that has been a ongoing generational problem which has been simmering under the surface. These people are emboldened and also exposed for who they are. > > Like a good therapists will uncover hidden issues that must be dealt with to move on, I believe that is what God is doing with Trump. It is a time to heal those, or at least contain those, who are angry and hateful towards others. The turn to prayer, and offer good will despite the will of Trump is the way forward for our people. This is the time that God wants us to move forward, not with Trump, but to throw off our old ways of hatred, and embrace love, and pray that the grinch’s of this world have their heart grow 3 sizes. I hope you’re right. History isn’t very encouraging on this point, but I hope it works out that way. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/122 "2017-01-20T00:21:20Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And who is this God person, anyway? 😉 He’s big in Russia. > [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Are you referring to the Republican House, or the Republican Senate? > > Would you like a pony, too? Hmmm. Maybe the Democratic Party and Progressive movement should just go with a “PONY” branding. Then when we’re asked, “Do you want a pony?” we can answer in the affirmative. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Fill the positions with goldendoodles. He’ll approve, because “gold”. The dems will approve, because they won’t be doing harm, and the public will approve, because, well, doodles! I…crap, this is better than swimsuit models. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/123 "2017-01-20T00:42:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **John Mace** - if all those tens of thousands of protesters literally thought that Trump was not going to be the President, why were they protesting? If they actually believed that Trump wasn’t going to be POTUS, they would have stayed at home. I think we are talking about different things. Not my president =/= Not the president. The protesters are saying they don’t accept Trump as their president as if they had some sort of choice in the matter. Like your Dallas Cowboys analogy-- you can choose your team, but you can’t choose your president. I said that in my first post in this thread (back on page 1). ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/124 "2017-01-20T00:45:26Z")
> [@ultimate11](#): > > As we near the presidential inauguration, I ask you dopers, will you give Trump a chance? > > (And yes, I was intending a poll for this topic, but I messed up and didn’t add one. Opinions are welcome.) Trump has proven himself to be a dishonest, unqualified, unstable, narcissistic, indifferent person who is not morally or mentally qualified to be president. But I have no choice. If he wants to try to create good jobs, expand health care, take on the plutocrats, get money out of politics, etc. I say good for him. The problem is Trump is far too inept to do anything productive in any of those areas. He is a mentally ill 4 year old. He isn’t going to push intelligent, well thought out policies that make America better. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/125 "2017-01-20T01:05:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think we are talking about different things. Not my president =/= Not the president. The protesters are saying they don’t accept Trump as their president as if they had some sort of choice in the matter. And you think the simplest interpretation is that tens of thousands of people erroneously believe they have a literal choice in the matter, that if they say no to Trump, that utterance is in some sense legally binding? You genuinely believe that’s what people are trying to convey? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/126 "2017-01-20T01:37:02Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And you think the simplest interpretation is that tens of thousands of people erroneously believe they have a literal choice in the matter, that if they say no to Trump, that utterance is in some sense legally binding? You genuinely believe that’s what people are trying to convey? I don’t claim to know exactly what they think. I would expect they are all over the map on what they think. But I do think they believe it means something, otherwise they wouldn’t be chanting it. I’m trying to imagine a scenario when protesters shout slogans that they know mean nothing… and I can’t think of any. Is this some unique situation? Do you think if you said to the protesters: Hey, you guys realize that “Not My President” means absolutely nothing, right? That they would say: Yeah, we know. IOW, do you think the simplest explanation is that they are chanting a phrase that they know means absolutely nothing? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/127 "2017-01-20T02:20:13Z")
Let me add: If I had to be a mind reader here, I would say that I expect most of these folks don’t really know what they mean when they chant that phrase. Only that they feel it has some truth to it. They are confusing intensity of passion with soundness of argument. We’re not talking about people who have built up a logical argument to present to the world. In fact, I don’t think you could have a productive, logical argument with most of these guys. You probably could get a few to admit “Yeah, it really doesn’t mean anything”, but I suspect most would cling to something and if you argued with them to the point where they had to choose between: 1. It means nothing at all 2. It means Trump is not the legitimate president of the US They would pick 2 rather than admit they were spouting an empty phrase. But they’re not there yet. No one has challenged them, and they haven’t had to think it through. They are mad as hell, and they are right! Anyway, if you really want to discuss this further, let’s open a separate thread. It is past the point of being a hijack. Feel free to have the last work in this thread, if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/128 "2017-01-20T02:54:51Z")
It’s only options 1 or 2, huh? There’s no option 3, “He may be President but I want to wash my hands of that dolt?” Your false dilemma is really pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/129 "2017-01-20T02:55:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t claim to know exactly what they think. I would expect they are all over the map on what they think. But I do think they believe it means something, otherwise they wouldn’t be chanting it. I’m trying to imagine a scenario when protesters shout slogans that they know mean nothing… and I can’t think of any. Is this some unique situation? > > Do you think if you said to the protesters: Hey, you guys realize that “Not My President” means absolutely nothing, right? That they would say: Yeah, we know. IOW, do you think the simplest explanation is that they are chanting a phrase that they know means absolutely nothing? No. None of that is what I think. That’s because I know that figurative language isn’t meaningless. Do you realize that? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/130 "2017-01-20T02:56:55Z")
Freud supposedly said that relief from anxiety is the most intense and rewarding form of pleasure, above sex, pecan pie, or even revenge. Being intensely aware of impending agony and death, and have that threat suddenly vacated, is a thermonuclear orgasm. By comparison, if Trump manages to get through the next year without disastrously impacting my life or the people I care for, I will be pleased. So pleased, I doubt I will even be troubled by asinine semantic arguments bickered by otherwise intelligent, reasoning people. ---
**Author:** ![4kad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/7cd45c/32.png) [@4kad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/4kad)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/131 "2017-01-20T03:23:16Z")
I don’t think I have a choice since he is not going anywhere until 2021. All we can do is see what happens once he takes office. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/132 "2017-01-20T03:26:43Z")
Wow. That was the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen on here. And not two weeks after we heard kellyanne conway asking us to see what was in don the cons heart and not listen to the words that he actually said. “Duh. Why do people say things outside of a laboratory where they can be factually analyzed? Why do people say rhetoric? It’s stupid, because it’s not real!” And then when they want to trumpsplain they say "Liberals take him literally but not seriously, and his fans take him the other way around, or something. This is not suitable for outside the pit. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/133 "2017-01-20T12:43:51Z")
**John** , in the late 1990s I used to see a lot of bumper stickers that said, “My President is Charlton Heston.” (Heston was president of the NRA at the time.) Somehow I don’t think they meant that the NRA was forming an internal breakaway republic with its own President, and they were joining up. And that if Heston, as Commander-in-Chief, gave them the order to invade the People’s Republic of Taxachusetts, they’d grab their guns, form [del]an army[/del] a well-regulated militia, and invade. I think they simply meant they didn’t like Bill Clinton and Democrats and libruls, and they preferred people like Heston, or the sorts of characters Heston usually portrayed. And of course they very much liked the NRA, and very much didn’t like Clinton and the Dems limiting the sorts of guns they could have. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/134 "2017-01-20T13:08:02Z")
At any rate, Trump has had his chance. He has no business being President, he doesn’t know the first thing about the job and in the year and a half since he declared his candidacy, he has shown no interest in educating himself. He’s got all the self-control of a four year old child. (Run out and get me a four year old child, it would be a big improvement actually.) The thing that boggled me most of all was that I could see him wanting to run and win, just to show he could do it, but I couldn’t imagine him wanting to actually BE President. And when it comes right down to it, he doesn’t want to be _President of the United States_, so much as the United States’ Biggest Big Shot. And that’s what he’s going to be. So I think he’s had his ‘chance.’ There’s no benefit of any doubt that he’s earned or that I should give him. His words carry no weight because he routinely reverses and contradicts himself, and half the time his words are only minimally connected with reality in the first place. OTOH, I can judge his actions: [look at his cabinet picks](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/final-swamp-watch-17-january-2017). Enough said. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/135 "2017-01-20T13:57:38Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think we are talking about different things. Not my president =/= Not the president. The protesters are saying they don’t accept Trump as their president as if they had some sort of choice in the matter. Like your Dallas Cowboys analogy-- you can choose your team, but you can’t choose your president. I said that in my first post in this thread (back on page 1). If you are taking things this literally, then you have to also admit that they are absolutely correct, and you are absolutely wrong. At this time, 9am, who is the president? Is it Trump? I think not. So, by your logic, you are the one that does not understand that Trump is not president until he takes the oath in a few hours. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/136 "2017-01-20T18:51:30Z")
For those now enduring an actual, OMFG-it’s-really-happening Trump Administration: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=816812](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=816812) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/137 "2017-01-21T01:08:32Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Wow. That was the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen on here. All the more remarkable. **John’s** not usually given to extremes. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/138 "2017-01-21T01:40:36Z")
As I asked in another thread, why should Muslims, gay people, people covered by the ACA, and so on give him a chance? What reason do they possibly have given his beliefs and political appointees? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/139 "2017-01-21T02:01:22Z")
Well, I don’t think he will make the deadline he also told us he was doing. > **[Trump Promised to Resign From His Companies — But There’s No Record He’s Done So](https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-promised-to-resign-from-his-companies-but-no-record-hes-done-so)** > > To transfer control of his companies, the president has to submit filings in Florida, Delaware and New York. We spoke to officials in each of those states. > [@](#): > > Trump Promised to Resign From His Companies — But There’s No Record He’s Done So > > To transfer control of his companies, the president has to submit filings in Florida, Delaware and New York. We spoke to officials in each of those states. > > At a news conference last week, now-President Donald Trump said he and his daughter, Ivanka, had signed paperwork relinquishing control of all Trump-branded companies. Next to him were stacks of papers in manila envelopes — documents he said transferred “complete and total control” of his businesses to his two sons and another longtime employee. > > Sheri Dillon, the Trump attorney who presented the plan, said that Trump “has relinquished leadership and management of the Trump Organization.” Everything would be placed in a family trust by Jan. 20, she said. > > That hasn’t happened. > > To transfer ownership of his biggest companies, Trump has to file a long list of documents in Florida, Delaware and New York. We asked officials in each of those states whether they have received the paperwork. As of 3:15 p.m. today, the officials said they have not. > > Trump and his associates “are not doing what they said they would do,” said Richard Painter, the chief ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush. “And even that was completely inadequate.” Oh, yeah, that “signed” paperwork he gesticulated in the news conference that was likely just blank papers and just unpacked manila envelopes. As empty of content as his promises on this. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2017, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529/140 "2017-01-21T02:12:18Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > All the more remarkable. **John’s** not usually given to extremes. Radical centrism, aggravated by non-partisan paralysis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-give-donald-trump-a-chance/777529.md?page=8)