# Will you PLEASE just let the poor woman die? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 21, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455 "2004-10-21T18:42:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/41 "2004-10-22T02:36:13Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > So you would rather continue this protracted agony for a husband who will never have his wife again, for parents who will never have their daughter again, and for a woman who will never have herself again? > > You would rather tie up time and hospital staff resources for a patient that cannot be healed? > > You would have the court system visit and revisit the issue of “life” when there is merely an existence at question? > > The worst part about folk like you is that the issue you cling to while voicing your opinion really isn’t your darling. Terry and her family are merely the platform used to extol your wonderful beliefs that you feel compelled to shove down everyone else’s throat. You want to be hooked up to machines until you’re 110? Have a ball. Kindly have the decency to let others manage their own families, problems, and grief without your meddling. Where did you learn to “read minds”? You make a lot of assumptions and guesses about other people’s beliefs and motivations. What evidence do you have that Ms. Schiavo’s life is a “protracted agony” for herself or her family? I do not believe that she should be euthanized just because her continued existence is inconvenient, expensive, or distressing to others. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/42 "2004-10-22T03:00:11Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Where did you learn to “read minds”? You make a lot of assumptions and guesses about other people’s beliefs and motivations. > > What evidence do you have that Ms. Schiavo’s life is a “protracted agony” for herself or her family? > > I do not believe that she should be euthanized just because her continued existence is inconvenient, expensive, or distressing to others. I’m not a mind reader by any stretch. My opinions are based on first hand observations, having worked in a community general hospital, primarily in ER, but also ICU/CCU and med/surg floors, time as an EMT and paramedic-sometimes transporting terminal and vegetative patients, and outside of clinical employment, the experience I mentioned in post #4 to this thread. Under those circumstances, I became conversant with many patients and family members, witnessed the difficulty in coming to grips with DNR for a loved one, and oddly enough, not one person has ever told me that they wanted to be kept alive at all costs, to be maintained by machines, devoid of any opportunity to ever be themselves again. **Mighty\_Girl** has nailed the point in a very succinct manner. Terry’s husband should have the final call on this. Not her parents, not the Florida courts, not me, and not you. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/43 "2004-10-22T03:05:28Z")
There are machines that can read minds, you fucking idiot. And the machines are saying that her mind is not there and is not coming back. She is a vegetable. There is no brain function. She is as dead as you can be and not be rotting. How fucking thick do you have to be not to get this? ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/44 "2004-10-22T03:06:51Z")
That was to mks57, not dances with cats! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/45 "2004-10-22T03:10:19Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Where’s the death certificate? > > I don’t think her parents consider her a “functional corpse”. Do you really think this is an intelligent response? a) There is no death certificate because she’s been hooked up to machines that keep her basic functions going. Without those machines, she can’t survive. b) She is what she is, no matter what anyone considers her. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/46 "2004-10-22T03:13:58Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > **Mighty\_Girl** has nailed the point in a very succinct manner. Terry’s husband should have the final call on this. Not her parents, not the Florida courts, not me, and not you. Do you believe that society has an obligation to protect and care for those who are unable to speak for themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/47 "2004-10-22T03:15:39Z")
I think the husband should step out. He has a new love in his life and children with that person, and so I perceive his desire to have Terri taken off life support as self-serving. He’s not looking out for what’s best for Terri, he wants to move on. He should divorce her and leave her in the care of her parents. I don’t agree with her parents wanting to keep her alive, but I feel sorry for them that they aren’t ready to let go of her. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/48 "2004-10-22T03:19:44Z")
> [@cazzle](#): > > I think the husband should step out. He has a new love in his life and children with that person, and so I perceive his desire to have Terri taken off life support as self-serving. He’s not looking out for what’s best for Terri, he wants to move on. He should divorce her and leave her in the care of her parents. > > I don’t agree with her parents wanting to keep her alive, but I feel sorry for them that they aren’t ready to let go of her. Self-serving in what way? That he can remarry? If he truly were as you said, he would probably divorce her and say to hell with it. But he’s not. She was his wife, and he feels that he knows her wishes best. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/49 "2004-10-22T03:22:06Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Do you believe that society has an obligation to protect and care for those who are unable to speak for themselves? Do you believe society has an obligation to corpses? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/50 "2004-10-22T03:22:11Z")
> [@cazzle](#): > > I think the husband should step out. He has a new love in his life and children with that person, and so I perceive his desire to have Terri taken off life support as self-serving. He’s not looking out for what’s best for Terri, he wants to move on. He should divorce her and leave her in the care of her parents. > . or- He’s an honorable man, who believes that he is, in fact doing what she herself would have wanted. From my perspective, he’s got really no incentive to **not** turn over ‘custody’ to her parents. it’s costing him, time, money and anguish. however, if some one I loved was in this situation and I truly believed that they would not want heroic measures to be taken, I’d fight their fight for them to the end. It is the final kindness you can do for someone you love. ---
**Author:** ![smartini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@smartini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smartini)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/51 "2004-10-22T03:23:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What I want to know is, why was she even put on the feeding tube in the first place? When she first suffered brain damage, why wasn’t something done THEN? Had she had a _Living Will_ or _Advance Directives_ she might not have been given the feeding tube. These documents are very specific about what degree of treatment and support an indivdual desires and names their specific agent for health care choices. So if you don’t have a Living Will – get one now and make sure your family, especially your agent of heath care choices, knows where it is kept. Mine is basically don’t do anything except give me some good drugs if I am in pain. My husband is my agent and when he asked exactly what that meant our daughter told him it meant he was “the plug boy” and she was back-up in case he chickened out. Just let me wake up dead. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/52 "2004-10-22T03:24:12Z")
Let me see: promises made to spouses are only good if the spouse is not too inconvenienced or is challenged. “Oh, they said no. Ok.” is not what I hope my husband would do when trying to follow my wishes. I would not back down from doing what he would have wanted me to do. YMMV of course. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Dr.Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Love)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/53 "2004-10-22T03:24:12Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Where did you learn to “read minds”? You make a lot of assumptions and guesses about other people’s beliefs and motivations. > > What evidence do you have that Ms. Schiavo’s life is a “protracted agony” for herself or her family? > > I do not believe that she should be euthanized just because her continued existence is inconvenient, expensive, or distressing to others. I’m curious, do you believe in the soul? And, if so, is the possession of a soul the determining factor in someone’s conscious life? Where is Ms. Schiavo’s soul now? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/54 "2004-10-22T03:25:17Z")
> [@cazzle](#): > > I think the husband should step out. He has a new love in his life and children with that person, and so I perceive his desire to have Terri taken off life support as self-serving. He’s not looking out for what’s best for Terri, he wants to move on. He should divorce her and leave her in the care of her parents. > > I don’t agree with her parents wanting to keep her alive, but I feel sorry for them that they aren’t ready to let go of her. I think you have a point. I don’t begrudge the husband for moving on, but if he is going to move on and pair up with another woman and _have kids_ with this woman, why not get a divorce? I’ve read statements about how he hasn’t divorced her—as if that makes him a swell guy—and yet since he’s comitted to another woman, what is his first marriage worth anyway? He’s not being faithful to his wife. (Not that I begrude him moving on. My gosh. 14 years. I don’t blame him.) I think there is a settlement or some sum of money involved, right? Is there any of this money left, or has it all gone to his wife’s care? (I don’t know.) _If_ there is some money left over and _if_ he’d get it as long as he’s not divorced from his wife, this _looks_ bad. (Not that I am accusing him of anything—just commenting on the _appearance_ of things if there is money.) I can sympathize with the parents because they see their son-in-law moving on, having children with another woman, and yet he’s still their daughter’s “husband.” How that must make them feel, even though (once again), who can blame him for wanting to move on? I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming that he wants what’s best for his wife—and it seems obvious that she _should_ be allowed to die. However, his parents may feel, on some emotional (not rational) level that he’s betrayed their daughter, is “cheating” on their daughter (which technically, he is) and they don’t trust him. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/55 "2004-10-22T03:26:47Z")
My understanding was that the husband would be entitled to some kind of payout upon Terri’s death that he would not recieve if he was no longer married to her. I’ll try and find a cite for that. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/56 "2004-10-22T03:37:08Z")
please do. I imagine the costs for keeping her body alive for the past number of years PLus the attorneys he’s had to hire to fight her battle have eaten up quite a chunk. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/57 "2004-10-22T03:46:14Z")
Well she did get a one million dollar payout for her future medical care, and if you can believe some of the stuff that turns up on a Google search, her husband is using that money to pay his legal fees as he fights for her death. I don’t have an unbiased source for that information, as I found it on [www.terrisfight.org](http://www.terrisfight.org) which appears to be her parent’s site - it’s in the “Myths” section. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/58 "2004-10-22T03:53:53Z")
that kind of money doesn’t last long with the kind of care she needs. And, of course, the attorney fees mount up as well. I’d be surprised if theres’ anything left. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/59 "2004-10-22T03:55:30Z")
> [@wring](#): > > I imagine the costs for keeping her body alive for the past number of years PLus the attorneys he’s had to hire to fight her battle have eaten up quite a chunk. The only reason she’s being fed with a tube is that someone is still paying the bill. The parent’s money, an insurance policy, personal assets… My one true love’s mother died of cancer last month. It took a week between the time she lost consciousness for the last time and her actual death. You wouldn’t _believe_ the toll that last week took on the family. I feel for this woman’s parents. To live in a perpetual state of hoping against hope for improvement that ain’t coming…I can’t even imagine it. I do know one thing. Until she dies, her family cannot move on. Tragic on so many levels . ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455/60 "2004-10-22T03:56:59Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t have an unbiased source for that information, as I found it on [www.terrisfight.org](http://www.terrisfight.org) which appears to be her parent’s site - it’s in the “Myths” section. Holy shit, that site is creepy. If my brain had been practically liquified and my parents put up fucking realplayer files of me drooling over myself like some kind of sideshow attraction to show how swell I was doing, I’d… well, I’d be as pissed as my remaining brain matter allowed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/will-you-please-just-let-the-poor-woman-die/270455.md?page=4)