Will you still be pro-abortion or pro-choice?

Great Debates
21

Still pro choice, I’ve always thought that one should tackle an important decision like an abortion rather quickly at least for sake of the child.
I admit I screwed up badly when I was 17. I managed to get a girlfriend pregnant. On accident we were protecting ourselves of course, it was just bad luck. Her mom wanted her to keep it, I wanted her to get rid of it, HOWEVER I left the choice up to her. Without telling her what I thought should be done, I asked her what her choice was. She didn’t want a baby.

So we did the prochoice thing. Behind her moms back. Even though she was of legal age to choose to keep it or not. I chose to tell her to empower herself to stand up for the choice she wanted to make, on something that would affect her for the rest of her life. The backlash from her family was horrendus (Sp) the family told everyone at my school and my future college that I was a murderer. That I pushed her little girl into killing something innocent.

Issues and articles like this get people hurt. We broke up several months after her abortion and she has a new boyfriend, I found out today that she’s 6 months pregenant, this time she’s going to keep it, even though she’s still in her teens. The reason why? She’s extremely fertile as we can see, also her boyfriend doesn’t like the ‘fucking through a sock’ feeling. So he refuses to protect her, and she is roman catholic so she isn’t supposed to get birth control.

Lovely manipulation via religion, her mother, and wonderful pictures like these to let her ruin her life. Ruin? Most people would argue. Children enlighten and brighten lives. What about when they rob you of your future? When you can’t further your education? how about when you raise them with hatred in your heart because you resent everything that they stand for. When your boyfriend runs out on you and you’re stuck with the sick union between you and a man who didn’t love you. At at a time when you were pressured to do the ‘right thing’ when you were ‘hacking up babies’.

I still think she’d keep it if she were older married, ready for a child. She’s going to graduate soon. I might have broken up with her but I feel bad about starting the whole cycle. Its sad really. The poor girl just won’t ever get a chance.

Pro choice… do with your life the best thing for you. I don’t care how much other people try to manipulate you. Perhaps its just the sick individuals out there…

Forcing anyone to do anything like that is wrong. Pro-life or pro abortion. I’m not really sure if those can actually be answers. Do you want your daughter sneaking around your back because of the shame into a black market abortion… I know the answer… even you pro lifers do. I’d rather see her in an abortion clinic.

Interesting.

22

Thought:

If she’s Roman Catholic, isn’t she also supposed to avoid both premarital sex and abortion, as well? Anyways.

I wonder how many of the photos in that article were really of “partial birth” abortions, and how many were of miscarriages and stillborn fetuses. If any really were of partial birth abortions, I wonder what the circumstances were that led the mother to abort. (For example, would she die if she carried the fetus to term?) They also didn’t show any pictures of horribly deformed fetuses (not as cute, I imagine).

I’m sure this isn’t entirely relevant, but I have never known anyone who had an abortion past the first trimester and I have certainly never known anyone who had a “partial birth” abortion. I have, however, known many people who miscarried late in the second or third trimester or who delivered stillborn infants. Does anyone here know a woman who aborted in the third trimester? If so, why did she do it? On a whim? To pick up a little extra cash? Right.

One thing that hacks me off about the article (aside from the fact that it’s nothing more than a piece of flaming anti-abortion propaganda) is the repeated description of the fetuses as “babies”.

It goes on and on in this vein, talking about “chopped up babies” and such.

Okay, “pro-choice” does not automatically mean a person approves of late-term abortions under any circumstance, and the states have the power to limit late-term abortions already. The article starts out by painting a picture of why fetal-tissue research is wrong, to showing why late-term abortions are wrong, to implying that all abortions are equally wrong.

23

I can see what the baby organs might be used for, but what would be the use of a baby head? Last I heard, head transplants didn’t happen very often…

By the way, this article made me decide to be pro-life. I never realized that abortions were icky looking! And oh, wow, they’re babies, and not fetuses! I never knew!

Not.

24

Just a minor nitpick, here–pro-choice doesn’t automatically mean that if you are faced with an unplanned pregnancy, you must get an abortion. Adoption is a choice, and so is keeping the baby. Pro-choice means having the freedom to make up your own mind about what you are going to do, and allowing others to have the same freedom.

After seeing those pictures, and reading a few articles, my mind is still not changed. I am pro-choice. I also think that the OP should have read something like “are you still pro- or anti- fetal tissue research.” Fact: Aborted fetuses are really gross-looking. Fact: So is live birth. Trust me. I’ve got three beautiful kids. But if you were to judge how they’d look in the future by how they looked the first instant out of the womb, you would have pegged them for a career in the sideshow.

One question about the D&E abortions: Can you get them on demand, anywhere, simply because you’ve changed your mind? From what I know of them (and now that I’ve seen pictures) it would seem to me that the answer would be no, but I really don’t know.

25

::: sigh :::

I’m with Tracer, SingleDad, and Phouka–nothing to see here, folks, move along…

I’m going to be very interested to see whether Tassy comes back to defend the OP, whatever it was.

26

Thought wrote:

Um … you might want to tell her boyfriend (and her) that there are other forms of contraception besides condoms.

27

I chose to stay out of her life. We did not have a good break up. Lots of acusations and hate were brewing. I thought she had learned her lesson. Her mother is quite manipulative, taking advantage of certain stipulations of catholicism. So she wasn’t allowed birth control. I understand the argument. I blame her parent. She’s very smart, I guess she just didn’t think it could happen to her again.

Afterward you sorta think about what you’ve done and take a look at yourself. I felt really guilty about being part of the circumstances that had a huge affect on her life.
About the adoption portion of the pro choice. I was prepared to let her keep the child, take responsiblity and raise it the best I possibly could. However I could not stand to give up my child. I am the last heir to my family name. I hope to carry on that name. It wasn’t really a choice for her. I suppose that sounds rather strange. If she did deliver that baby, in the least she could have given it to me rather than an adoption agency. I’m not sure on the laws surrounding that, but I’d do everything in my power to keep it, if it ‘hit the ground’ so to speak.

Oh well… i’ve brought up some. bad memories… i think i’m going for a run… then maybe a drive in the country.

28

Or maybe strapping them into car seats, driving them into a lake and blaming it on a non-existent black man? Oh wait, that was someone on the “pro-life” side that did that…

This thread is mis-named. “Pro-choice” does not equal “pro-abortion.” I don’t know anyone who’s “pro-abortion.” Everyone I’ve ever met on the pro-choice side realizes that having an abortion is not a decision to be taken lightly. It’s only the anti-choicers who seem to think aborting a fetus is about as easy a choice as what shoes to wear to the clinic.

29

I am going to assume that those who claim to be pro-life have not yet responded… I have to because it’s hard to believe that very little shock has been registered. I don’t want to believe that our society has been so blinded and deceived that they refuse to see truth, when it’s presented. (The truth is in the pictures, not necessarily the presentation.)

Whether or not these pictures are genuinely of partial-birth abortions, is not the point. Although if they aren’t, then what the heck IS it depicting?

Tell me. How desensitized does one have to be in order to look at these pictures and still use a generic/safe term, such as “fetus”?

I have always been pro-life and I have seen “fetus” pictures, but nothing like I saw in the link. I was sick to my stomach and all I could think about was how much those BABIES looked like they could be my son.

As for a “perfect scenario” where abortion might have been mandated, I lived it. I was 4 months pregnant AND unemployed when my ex-husband left me for another woman. By Thomas’ ethical standards, my life was destined to be “ruined” and my future would be “robbed”. Fortunately, I didn’t let my shitty circumstance dictate whether or not my son would live or die. So now, here I am. A single mother w/a 4 yr. old son. Is it tough? You bet. But I wouldn’t trade it for anything. Although my financial situation is still pretty dismal, my son does not lack for love or the necessities of life. But what about those who do lack? Do we deprive them of life or, in fact, kill them because life sucks? How many successful people have poverty-stricken childhoods? How many successful people have had loveless childhoods, but still went on to be productive members of society?

I know that you will all pipe in with “keeping your child was your choice” but why does anyone’s choice dictate life? Who determines what quality of life is?

If you’re not appalled, disgusted and compelled to try to do something to stop this horrible atrocity, then not only have you been blinded and deceived, but you are in full possession of a hardened heart.

As for 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions, they happen all the time and they are perfectly legal. A good friend of mine succumbed to pressure and had an abortion when she was 5 1/2 months along; she could even feel the baby kicking but still went through with it. Which brings me to another point. Every woman that I know that has had an abortion has gone through post-abortion trauma (including the friend I mentioned). I realize that not all women have endured that trauma… YET, but it always comes back around.

I don’t expect to (personally) change any minds, here. Hopefully, the seeds of truth have been planted and will come to fruition. IJN,A!

30

Drain Bead said:

Although, I can think of a few folks who maybe could use one. Why, just reading the OP makes me think…

31

Insulting someone that doesn’t agree with you… very original and effective.

32

Touchy, touchy. Can’t take a little joke, eh? Besides, I wasn’t referring directly to you – I was thinking more along the lines of the folks who put that whole web page together and others like them.

33

I am appalled and disgusted. Those pictures were vile. But showing me really gross pictures doesn’t change my mind. Seeing movies about the birth of babies, where they actually showed a live birth, didn’t change my mind about doing that, and doing it three times. Seeing really weird pornography doesn’t make me want to take it away from everyone else. Not liking onions doesn’t make me want to keep everyone else from eating them.

I have not been blinded and deceived. I know what abortion is. I’ve had one (first-trimester). I’ve also given a child up for adoption, and had a miscarriage. Having had to make every available choice in regards to pregnancy, and knowing that every choice I made was the right one for me, at the time I had to make it, I think that I would be the biggest effing hypocrite on the face of the earth if I ever, ever let a few pictures change my mind.

I won’t touch the “hardened heart” statement, since this isn’t the Pit. Let’s just say I don’t appreciate it.

34

Ok, I suspect that I’ll live to regret this, posting to a GD thread about abortion, but…

Otto wrote:

Actually, there’s plenty of folks who are specifically pro-abortion. Consider: Many states have attempted to pass laws requiring a three-day waiting period or mandating the distribution of literature at the clinic discussing other options, such as adoption. Now, from a genuinely pro-choice point of view, these laws would be good things: To make a serious decision, you ought to have time to think about it, as well as access to information on both options. However, these laws do not pass. Someone’s voting against them.

As to the whole concept of pro-choice, yes, it is, a choice, but the whole concept of civilization is that there are some choices that a person does not have the right to make. If I decide that my next-door neighbors are ruining my life, I can make the choice to get out a shotgun and blow them away. If I actually do so, however, I will be tossed in prison, and rightly so, most folks would agree. I have never yet heard an argument for abortion that could not be used to justify any action whatsoever, and yet we all agree that there are some actions which are unjustifiable.

35

That’s probably because they aren’t really necessary. You cannot walk in to a clinic and say “I’d like an abortion, please,” and walk out five minutes later, having gotten an abortion.

I went to Planned Parenthood. The one I went to only does abortions one day a week, and you must have an appointment. I called on a Tuesday, and got the abotion on Saturday. That’s five days. When I got there, I talked to a counselor for about two hours, discussing all of my options. I had up until about 5 seconds before the procedure to change my mind. The last thing the doctor said to me before he began was “We are almost at the point of no return. Are you absolutely certain you want me to proceed?” He did not begin until I had answered him. That’s the way it is in most reputable clinics. The reputable clinics also do not tell you that the choice you make, be it abortion, adoption, or keeping, is a bad one, which is something I cannot say for some other “pregnancy counseling” centers, that show you the door at the mere mention of abortion.

36

Chronos said:

Maybe in China, where they have a limit of one child per family, but not here in the U.S. (with some extremist exceptions, I imagine).

That’s because you’re looking at them backwards. Both of those things are mandates that interfere with choice, not enhance choice. A three-day waiting period for somebody who has already thought it over is not helping choice, but interfering with her decision once it’s been made. Forcing literature on somebody who has already made a choice is not helping the choice, but acting as a method to distribute propaganda.

I have nothing against having such information available or having a person think about it for a few days (at least) – I think both are good ideas. But they are not good when forced on people. I am pro-choice, not pro-abortion.

37

Bullshit. Your story is unfortunate, but wholly pedestrian.

My wife had to have back surgery to repair fractured vertebrae and install a “cage” (a metal brace around the spine). She was x-rayed several times in the days before the surgery, knocked out with lots of narcotics for many hours, and operated on from both the front and the back. She was on morphine during six days of recovery, and on codeine and other painkillers for weeks.

And then we discovered, about six weeks after the procedure, that she was pregnant. We used birth control; we took precautions. Just an unfortunate failure. And then, the doctor told us that she was over two months pregnant. In other words, she had conceived pre-surgery. The developing fetus had been subjected to multiple x-rays, heavy narcotics, and physical abuse during her abdominal surgery.

Our hearts broke – we want children – but there was no way in hell we were going to let an “accidental” conception like that come to term. It would have been absolutely inhuman to bring a severely damaged child into the world.

And had the Anti-Choice Nazis like you had their way, we would have been forced to deal with the consequences. We weren’t stupid “welfare mothers” or “irresponsible teens” – we’re intelligent adults who got caught in a horrible situation.

Your pictures are icky. Abortion is horrible. I would never voluntarily choose to go through that again, unless it were, as it was above, absolutely necessary. But I am relieved to a degree I cannot express that the option was available.

So fuck you, and fuck your insultingly trite “perfect scenario.” If that’s your definition of “true need,” then it’s no wonder you’re such a fucking asswipe. Grow up and get a goddamn clue – and keep your tiny brain out of my life.

38

Pro-choice.

39

No the truth is not in those pictures. Pictures like that encourage an emotional, rather than rational response. Society isn’t refusing to see the truth, it’s ignoring extraneous issues in the debate over exactly when life begins. It doesn’t matter that those pictures of aborted fetuses happen to look like babies, what matters is whether they actually are.

Well, they could be stillborn fetuses, in which case the pictures would be completely irrelevant to any discussion of abortion, even more so than they currently are.

It isn’t a matter of desensivity, rather a desire to refer to things with an accurate term. The pictures are fetuses. I call them that because it’s the correct term. It’s like looking at the devastation wrought by Hurricane Andrew and still being able to call it by such a generic/safe as “hurricane”. I don’t understand why you insist that just because the pictures are disgusting one can only refer to them with inaccurate and loaded terms.

As far as I can see, the primary issue in relation to abortion is where life starts. If you do not believe that the fetus in question is actually alive, you aren’t going to consider it an atrocity to abort it. The rest of your statement is the sort that people opposed to rational thought make. You are simply asserting that those who disagree with you are wicked people.

You won’t change any minds because the people on this message board are not the type to be swayed by your pathetic arguments. There were no “seeds of truth” planted as a result of your posts ar the article.

40

Tassey wrote:

And what if those pictures are of plastic models built by special-effects experts for maximum “gross-out effect”? They could be, for all you know – and for all I know, too. Special effects artistry can be pretty convincing nowadays. (Ever seen a high-budget horror movie?)

We’ll never know, though, because those pictures had no captions. If “the truth is in the pictures”, as you say, I have to ask what truth is in those pictures? That aborted fetuses (if that is indeed what those are pictures of) look like cute little babies that have been horrifically mangled? So do life-like baby dolls that have been run over by a truck. Should we outlaw the destruction of dolls because they look cute?