# Willard and Apocalypse Now **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [August 6, 2021, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140 "2021-08-06T02:25:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/21 "2021-08-07T06:21:47Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > For me, the original release of Apocalypse Now is the definitive version. Man, I’m with you. Redux should have be left in the trash. Took a semi-tedious movie to an excruciating exercise in _“How long can I stand this bullshit before I have to pee?”._ It denegrates the original work. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/22 "2021-08-07T06:30:22Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Man, I’m with you. Redux should have be left in the trash. Took a semi-tedious movie to an excruciating exercise in _“How long can I stand this bullshit before I have to pee?”._ It denegrates the original work. Agree. The original, as released in theatres, was a taut thriller. The Redux was a … mess. The scenes about Kilgore worrying about his surfboard, the Bunny screwing, and the French plantation, added nothing. In a thriller, you have to keep the plot moving, and the original did. The Redux made me ask what these scenes and incidents added to the plot, and why they were included, when all they did was to slow the plot down. ---
**Author:** ![SwissMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@SwissMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SwissMan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/23 "2021-08-07T13:24:06Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Martin Sheen was the last of the James Dean wannabees I watched _Badlands_ for the first time earlier this year and man, does “James Dean type” fit Sheen’s performance in that film. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/24 "2021-08-07T13:44:37Z")
IIRC, the trooper’s “I’ll kiss your ass if he don’t look just like James Dean” was highly appreciated, since Charles Starkweather himself was a big fan. I don’t think Brando was an indispensable as he was difficult in his role. Plenty of his era’s Method actors would have done well. Paul Newman would have been credible. Shifting from Method to Shakespearian, Peter O’Toole would have been interesting. There’s a literary theory that Joseph Conrad made Kurtz and Lord Jim from the same source material, one noble and the other corrupted ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/25 "2021-08-07T14:27:44Z")
I thought it was the obvious that Willard was suffering from massive PTSD, hence the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/26 "2021-11-08T15:22:27Z")
Bumping this because I have since discovered that much of Willards narration and some body double shots were done by Sheens brother, Joe Estevez. ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/27 "2021-11-08T19:42:25Z")
To me there is a definitive version of Apocalypse Now: the original theatrical release. And by that reasoning I’m not aware of many films that don’t have a definitive version. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/28 "2021-11-08T19:51:57Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I don’t think Brando was an indispensable as he was difficult in his role. “Do you find my…method acting…unsound?” I wish they’d have had anyone but Brando in the role. We could have seen the movie that was actually conceived. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/29 "2021-11-08T20:11:22Z")
Hey come on, that quote is from Porklips Now. I thought Brando was fine and really couldn’t imagine who else could have played it. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/30 "2021-11-08T20:25:38Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > …really couldn’t imagine who else could have played it. Think about William Shatner in the role. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/31 "2021-11-08T20:31:39Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I thought Brando was fine and really couldn’t imagine who else could have played it. “i see no…acting…whatsoever.” 🙂 Just kidding. Brando brings a lot to the role. About 300 pounds. He didn’t bring the script, though. Ba dump! Seriously, my only real complaint with Brando’s performance was his prima donna-ing behind the scenes. If you didn’t know about that it just looks like Mertz, I mean, Kurtz, is insane, Which he is. I could see Nick Nolte doing a good job. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/32 "2021-11-08T20:59:00Z")
How about Gary Busey? 😃 Seriously, though, a couple of decades afterwards, John Malkovich did a decent job in the TV movie of _Heart of Darkness_. According to Wikipedia, Boris Karloff played the role on TV in 1958. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/33 "2021-11-08T21:01:31Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > John Malkovich In agree on Malkovich. If only FFC could have waited. But then we’d get Charlie Sheen as Willard. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/34 "2021-11-08T21:02:11Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I wish they’d have had anyone but Brando in the role. We could have seen the movie that was actually conceived. I think the movie as actually conceived would have been greatly inferior to the one we got. It’s a masterpiece _because_ of the chaotic production, not in spite of it. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/35 "2021-11-08T21:10:26Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s a masterpiece _because_ of the chaotic production, not in spite of it. That’s a good point, as we would likely have got all the deleted Redux scenes, in the initial version, as if the original wasn’t already as bloated as Br…already bloated. How many here have seen _Heart of Darkness: A Filmmaker’s Apocalypse_? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/36 "2021-11-08T21:30:47Z")
I last saw the doc when it was in theaters…30 years ago! I thought it came out like 10 years ago. No wonder I can’t remember any of it. I should track it down and rewatch it. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2021, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/37 "2021-11-08T23:16:42Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > In the end I think Martin Sheen does a great job BUT…he’s supposed to be an assassin who has been in Vietnam for a while, so when he’s being wide-eyed and incredulous at the chaos around him (acting as a stand-in for the audience) it doesn’t really make sense. But has he been an assassin, though? And even if he had been, he is clearly in the throws of PTSD. He is barely holding it together throughout the movie. To me it makes perfect sense and I thought it was very well played. I love all versions of this movie. I’ve watched them all several times. I’ve landed on the directors cut as my favorite. I like the extended format and I like immersing myself in the experience with Willard. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/38 "2021-11-09T00:39:42Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > But has he been an assassin, though? Six that he knows of. But never an American. It’s in his voice over. The assassination of a tax collector is specifically alluded to when he visits the general and CIA spook. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/39 "2021-11-09T02:22:05Z")
I think the casting of Harrison and Spradlin (small though they were) was nice ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2021, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140/40 "2021-11-09T02:25:57Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > But then we’d get Charlie Sheen as Willard. [I think he could pull it off](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTopAYE3IFw). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willard-and-apocalypse-now/948140.md?page=3)