# William Bennett: "If you want to reduce crime...abort every black baby in America." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155 "2005-09-30T04:05:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/201 "2005-10-02T11:51:35Z")
Just a tempest in a teapot as far as I can tell, with the liberal media and politicians whipping up indignation amongst the black population to further their own agenda. I never heard of the Salem Radio News Network before and to the extent that Bill Bennett has directly harmed the black listeners of his program (maybe a dozen or so black conservatives?) the offence to black Americans has certainly been increased by the media to the tune of several orders of magnitude. What amazes me most of all however is that a modern conservative Christian organization would take on the name “Salem”, which evokes immediate memory of one of the most embarrassing , ridiculous, and hateful episodes in the history of Christianity in America. I fully expect that this is not the last time these guys will be caught with their foot in their mouth. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/202 "2005-10-02T12:21:07Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > You just don’t talk about eliminating an entire race while pointing out the beneficial things that might accomplish. Not as a hypothetical, not for any reason. > [@VarlosZ](#): > > Yeah, that’s double-plus ungood. Seriously, though. Are you saying that you shouldn’t say that sort of thing on a public forum like Bennett’s radio show, or that you shouldn’t even say it in private? If it’s the former, then you should agree that it was merely a mental lapse on Bennett’s part. If it’s the latter, then I hope you take my _1984_ reference to heart, you censorious twit. It’s not a thought crime. CONVENTION ON THE PREVENTION AND PUNISHMENT OF THE CRIME OF GENOCIDE Adopted by Resolution 260 (III) A of the United Nations General Assembly on 9 December 1948.The United States became a signatory to the convention in 1988 Article 1. The Contracting Parties confirm that genocide, whether committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under international law which they undertake to prevent and to punish. Art. 2. In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: [INDENT] (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Art. 3. The following acts shall be punishable: (a) Genocide; (b) **Conspiracy to commit genocide** ; (c) **Direct and public incitement to commit genocide** ; (d) Attempt to commit genocide; (e) Complicity in genocide. Art. 4. Persons committing genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in Article 3 shall be punished, whether they are constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or **private individuals**. **Art. 5. The Contracting Parties undertake to enact, in accordance with their respective Constitutions, the necessary legislation to give effect to the provisions of the present Convention and, in particular, to provide effective penalties for persons guilty of genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in Article 3.** Art. 6. Persons charged with genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in Article 3 shall be tried by a competent tribunal of the State in the territory of which the act was committed, or by such international penal tribunal as may have jurisdiction with respect to those Contracting Parties which shall have accepted its jurisdiction. [/INDENT] GENOCIDE CONVENTION IMPLEMENTATION ACT OF 1987 “THE PROXMIRE ACT” Chapter 50A of the US law code, Title 18 (Crimes and Criminal Procedure), Part I (Crimes) (a) Basic Offense.— Whoever, whether in time of peace or in time of war, in a circumstance described in subsection (d) and with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in substantial part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group as such— INDENT kills members of that group; (2) causes serious bodily injury to members of that group; (3) causes the permanent impairment of the mental faculties of members of the group through drugs, torture, or similar techniques; (4) subjects the group to conditions of life that are intended to cause the physical destruction of the group in whole or in part; (5) imposes measures intended to prevent births within the group; or (6) transfers by force children of the group to another group; or attempts to do so, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b). (b) Punishment for Basic Offense.— The punishment for an offense under subsection (a) is— (1) in the case of an offense under subsection (a)(1), where death results, by death or imprisonment for life and a fine of not more than $1,000,000, or both; and (2) a fine of not more than $1,000,000 or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both, in any other case. (c) Incitement Offense.— **Whoever in a circumstance described in subsection (d) directly and publicly incites another to violate subsection (a) shall be fined not more than $500,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.** (d) Required Circumstance for Offenses.— The circumstance referred to in subsections (a) and (c) is that— (1) the offense is committed within the United States; or (2) the alleged offender is a national of the United States (as defined in section 101 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101)). (e) Nonapplicability of Certain Limitations.— Notwithstanding section 3282 of this title, in the case of an offense under subsection (a)(1), an indictment may be found, or information instituted, at any time without limitation. [/INDENT] ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/203 "2005-10-02T14:04:09Z")
Once again, since you apparently missed it: > [@Aeschines](#): > > You just don’t talk about eliminating an entire race while pointing out the beneficial things that might accomplish. **Not as a hypothetical, not for any reason**. As has been pointed out 5 or 6 trillion times in this thread alone, he clearly was not advocating any abortions – quite the opposite, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/204 "2005-10-02T14:19:18Z")
It seems like people are caught up on the abortion issue. What he said was assholish because he took it as a given that more black people = more crime. So he wasn’t serious about abortion, but he was proposing it as a mock solution to what he sees as a real problem – the existence of black people and their inevitable disposition to commit crimes against white people. Who cares if he’s pro-life on top of that? He’s still a racist asshole, he meant the racist part of the comment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/205 "2005-10-02T14:37:26Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > …the existence of black people and their inevitable disposition to commit crimes against white people. [sarcasm] You Sir, are a racist ! [/sarcasm} ---
**Author:** ![GrahamWellington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/54ee81/32.png) [@GrahamWellington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrahamWellington)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/206 "2005-10-02T14:49:44Z")
Well; it is true that according to FBI crime statistics, that if you’re a Caucasian woman, you’re 200 times more likely to be raped by a black man than a black woman is likely to be raped by a Caucasian man. Perhaps it’s long over due to start having an open and honest national conversation about the black crime rate in this country that’s been so high for so long now, yes? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/207 "2005-10-02T14:51:53Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > Well; it is true that according to FBI crime statistics, that if you’re a Caucasian woman, you’re 200 times more likely to be raped by a black man than a black woman is likely to be raped by a Caucasian man. > > Perhaps it’s long over due to start having an open and honest national conversation about the black crime rate in this country that’s been so high for so long now, yes? Oh, why bother with discussion first? Just get the lynch mobs going. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/208 "2005-10-02T15:03:41Z")
You Americans are so comical when it comes to generalizations about race. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/209 "2005-10-02T15:41:24Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > Just a tempest in a teapot as far as I can tell, with the liberal media and politicians whipping up indignation amongst the black population to further their own agenda. This is probably one of the stupidest things I’ve read on this board in a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/210 "2005-10-02T15:42:51Z")
> [@GrahamW](#): > > it is true that according to FBI crime statistics, that if you’re a Caucasian woman, you’re 200 times more likely to be raped by a black man than a black woman is likely to be raped by a Caucasian man. “200 times more likely to be raped”? What does that mean? Does that mean that the statistics show a ratio of 200 white women raped by black men to 1 black woman raped by a white man? You would expect to see a larger number of white rape victims than black ones anyway, irrespective of the race of the assailant, simply because of the larger number of white women than black women in the US. And then you’d have to take into account possible differences in reporting and conviction rates: for example, is a white rape victim more likely to report it to the police than a black rape victim? Is a black defendant more likely to be convicted of raping a white victim than a white defendant of raping a black victim? Only after we control for all such possible systematic discrepancies can we determine whether the statistic is saying something meaningful about race and crime. If we’re going to use statistics to talk about crime problems, we need to make sure we know what the statistics are actually saying. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/211 "2005-10-02T16:41:43Z")
[FBI solve rate data](http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offcleared/03-table27.html) clearance rates vary from 7.2 percent to 63.3% (assault w/hands, feet). the solved rate is not due to a statistically nuetral reason (ie it ain’t random). incarcertation data similarly is not due to random factors, but rather predictable things, that aren’t statistically nuetral, either. probation, for example, won’t be reflected in incarceration data. in my jurisdiction (MI) Detroit is the single largest ‘feeder’ into the prison system. part of that is that they’re the largest city. but they’re also more likely to send some one to prison 'cause then the responsability for that person becomes a state vs. a county issue and Wayne county is in financial strain. other ways to manipulate the data include: plea bargaining a ‘robbery’ (a violent offense) to a ‘larceny’ (non violent). or conversely, a ‘tresspassing’ (non violent) to “home invasion” (violent). I’ve seen both. all you can reliably say is that minorities are overrepresented in the incarceration data. any other conclusion (especially that they’re responsible for ‘more crime’ ) is not supportable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/212 "2005-10-02T18:13:46Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > This is probably one of the stupidest things I’ve read on this board in a long time. Obviously you don’t recognize stupid when it is in front of you. > [@you with the face](#): > > Killing all the black babies will not lower the crime rate. That would only happen if more potential criminals than law-abiders exist in the unborn black population Perhaps you don’t realize the implication of your statement. If you try real hard and if you have a modicum of intelligence you might , just might realize that what you are suggesting is that there are more criminals in the present black population than law abiding citizens, given the present stats. I’d call you a racist, but there is the slight possibility that you might believe that there are presently at least just as many white criminals as there are white law abiding citizens. That is truly over the top and even way short of anything I’ve ever heard from white racists. It is completely devoid of any logic whatsoever. I ignored your comment earlier as indicative of a weak mind, but since you are up to the task of casting an unsubstantiated stone, you deserve to be castigated. Do you understand ? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/213 "2005-10-02T19:23:36Z")
> [@wring](#): > > and, as has been pointed out several times, incarceration rates does not equal crime rates. simple as that. Well, with the right assumptions, you can dispute any correlation. It is technically true that, perhaps, the disproportionate number of arrests and convictions “beyond a reasonable doubt” of blacks is not conclusive that they are committing disproportionate numbers of crimes. Of course, there is no evidence of huge numbers of unsolved crimes, most of which are committed by white folks, and which the racist police and court systems are deliberately overlooking so as to stick it to the brothers. But I suppose they could exist. In the same way, however, you cannot be sure that poverty causes crime, because it is possible that Beverly Hills is actually a hotbed of crime, and Biff and Buffy are driving Daddy’s Mercedes to South Central to knock over a liquor store every weekend, and framing Jamal for it. And you cannot be sure that single parenthood is responsible for any social ills, because Ozzie and Harriet could actually be leaders of a major crime syndicate. And every police station and district court in American is really a secret cabal of the Ku Klux Klan, but nobody knows about it. If you assume facts not in evidence, then you can prove or disprove anything you want. It’s like **Shayna** ’s post back on page 2, where she presents this: > [@](#): > > The National Institute of Drug Abuse estimated that while 12 percent of drug users are black, they make up nearly 50 percent of all drug possession arrests in the U.S. (The Black and White of Justice, Freedom Magazine, Volume 128) and then goes on to use this to try to establish that blacks only seem to be disproportionately involved in the drug trade. Where did that estimate come from? Since blacks make up about 12-13% of the US populace, it is possible they just assumed that blacks actually use and sell drugs at a rate proportionate to their representation in the populace. But that’s arguing in a circle, and therefore it has not been established that blacks are actually no more or less law-abiding than everyone else, but it is just The Man[sup]TM[/sup] keeping them down. The arrest and conviction rates are hard facts. The stuff about how maybe it is just a statistical artifact, or institutional racism, is a lot squishier. And too much of it is pulled out of someone’s federal-grant-seeking ass. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/214 "2005-10-02T19:49:57Z")
Can I chime in with some anecdotal evidence? Well, Ok, an oxymoron, but here goes anyway: 1. One of the first things I noticed when moving to the 'burbs was that the white folks all headed to the city to buy their drugs. And a metric crapload of them were into their drugs. Figured out that they were, in effect, “exporting” the criminality of their actions to the city, so that the drug dealers and all the problems that went with them wouldn’t exist where they lived. Didn’t make said users any less criminal, though; the city (NYC) under one of the mayors, I forget which, instituted a program of seizing the cars of people buying drugs in the city, and wound up with lots of NJ cars as a result, of course. 2. One of the first patients my wife had when we first moved out here (she’s a doctor) was a white heroin addict living in the basement of his parent’s house. She, btw, is the reason why I know about all the drugs around here; she can spot a user a mile away, through all kinds of different signs I never noticed, being the sweet, innocent character I am. 3. She occasionally lets loose with stories about all the abused wives she sees, who are keeping it a secret. She sees it because of course they have to undress for her, and she gets to see the bruises, and the scars, and all the rest. Yep, lots of secrets behind those white picket fences. Like assault, rape, and drugs, to name a few. The upper classes know how to keep it all hush-hush, though. And since air separates one house from another, nobody has to hear the arguing and the screaming. Every once in a great while some outrage, like the girl gang-raped by a bunch of high-school athletes from a rich town, where the parents knew about it and kept it all quiet, will come out. Not often, though. Overall, people are people are people, and the only variable is their incentive to commit economic crimes, which of course is inversely proportional to their income, and their likelihood of getting caught whatever the crime may be, which is also inversely proportional, for what I hope are pretty obvious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/215 "2005-10-02T20:07:38Z")
the arrest and conviction numbers are indeed hard facts, but you continue to ignore other pieces of data that are not captured by the numbers of incarceration again: One body in prison **does not equal** the same number of crimes as another body in prison. what this means is that in no way, shape or form can you extrapolate the number of **crimes** from the number of bodies in the prison. The data is not reported in that fashion. you **assume** that the numbers are similar. That’s a hell of an assumption. **Shodan** - again. the number of people in prison is exactly that. A number of people in prison. there is absolutely no data to present which captures the number of crimes each are responsible for. You simply cannot say that category x of prisoners are responsible for y % of crimes because **you have no data to support how many crimes each person in prsion has committed** the data is not collected. they also don’t capture the question ‘how many of them are tatooed’. or ‘how many teeth to each have’. or ‘how many children they have’. You’d not support any suggestion that white folks in prison are more likely to have tatoos, no teeth and a passel of children to support, right? you may think that is true, but the data is not collected. I’ve pointed out several easy ways that will result in over emphasizing the minority population in incarceration numbers. here’s some of them again. (keep in mind that each of these will result in some over emphasizing of minorities. so that aggrigate total of over emphasizing **should** make you suspect that extrapolation of assumptions from the resultant data is too flawed, shouldn’t be done). 1. Some jurisidicitional issues - for example, historically, the City of Detroit (predominately black) would routinely sentence folks to prison vs. probation in order to save the county the supervisory money. that would (and did) result in a higher skewing of minority population for the state of Michigan. In addition, my experience in this field suggests taht in certain rural locations, minorities committing crimes were much more likely to get prison vs. probation again skewing the numbers. 2. Financial issues - incarceration is a much more likely event if you rely on public defenders vs. private attorneys - who’s more likely to be poor? 3. A very small percentage of **reported crime** is solved. You have to assume (again) that the types of crimes that are solved are also equally (and accurately) represented. I think that’s an unreasonable assumption. For example -There was a local case years back of a break in, the type of crime with a really low solve rate. Two women were seen leaving the house, one black, one white. This was a very white rural town. the cop in charge knew of a black woman who’d broken into places there before. He looked her up. DId he know of white women who’d broken into places? sure. did he look them up? no. He tracked down the black female, determined she’d been involved, and offered the white female a plea bargain (no charges for her). So in that one case, you’d have seen one black in prison for a crime, even though the reality was that there were two people involved in that crime, one white, one black. 1. You have to assume (again) that each person in prison is representative of the same number of crimes. And that’s flat out unsupportable. I’ve done this for years. I’ll run background checks and there’s a few with only one or two crimes, and others who’s records run pages and pages. 2. Enhancement data. For example, you can get an enhancement (longer sentence, more likely a prison term) if you committ certain crimes w/in “drug/violence free zones” which are typically defined as being certain amount of space near schools and public housing. In rural or suburban areas, the actual amount of real estate in which one could potentially get ‘enhanced’ is a small percentage of the space availalbe to commit a crime (IOW, it’s unlikely to get enhanced) vs. a urban situation where most of the city would be w/in the free zone, (IOW more likely to get enhanced). this again will make it more likely that an urban criminal will receive a prison sentence than a suburban or rural, and the demographics will follow. 3. In addition to everything else - a single specific crime may in fact have several people responsible for it. 7 people conspire to murder a single person, that’s not 7 crimes, it’s one crime but 7 people. Theres’ any number of reasons why minorities show up in the prison population. Obviously for committing crimes, but you have no basis to assert that minorities are responsible for more crime. I work w/this data all the time. We can find out how many people are in prison. How many on parole, probation. We can find out how many reported murders there were. How many were solved. I can find out how many crimes **person** X was found guilty of. what I **can’t** find is: 1. How many crimes person X committed. 2. How many persons were found guilty of this specific crime 3. How many findings of guilt do the people who are currently serving time have. (unless you ran 40,000 criminal records, by which time the specifics of who was incarcerated would change). In short: 2 bodies in prison may mean 2 crimes, 1 crime, 0 crimes, 100 crimes etc. There is no way to know. therefore any extrapolation of “Since black prisoners account for x percentage of the incarceration numbers, they’re also responsible for same percentage of crimes” is an unsupportable statement. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/216 "2005-10-02T20:08:30Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > Perhaps you don’t realize the implication of your statement. If you try real hard and if you have a modicum of intelligence you might , just might realize that what you are suggesting is that there are more criminals in the present black population than law abiding citizens, given the present stats. Um, no. “Given the present stats” has nothing to do with the fact that if you wipe out 12% of the population, not only will you take out the criminals but you also take out a considerable chunk of the total (mostly law-abiding) population. To make Bennett’s thought experiment worth the effort, more than 50% of the unborn black population would need to be potential criminals, assuming a stoichiometry of 1:1 (1 crime for every 1 criminal). Otherwise, you’re just siphoning off your denominator at a greater pace than your numerator, and you end up increasing the per capita crime. But go on and call me a racist. I just love it when folks think that hurts my feelings or something. ---
**Author:** ![fushj00mang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d26b3c/32.png) [@fushj00mang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fushj00mang)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/217 "2005-10-02T20:35:59Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > No. > > Because the significance is not any single abortion, but the fact that advocating the abortion of all black fetuses, in perpetuity, would lead to no more black babies and, eventually, no more black people, period. But the comment by Larry wasn’t that he was advocating abortion, but genocide. If I remember correctly, genocide is the systematic eradication of a group based on ethnic or religious grounds. Namely, for a series of abortions to be considered genocide, then the fetuses have to be persons. Doesn’t make the statement any less reprehensable, but genocide is the wrong word without granting ‘personhood’ to a fetus. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/218 "2005-10-02T20:47:31Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > To make Bennett’s thought experiment worth the effort, more than 50% of the unborn black population would need to be potential criminals, assuming a stoichiometry of 1:1 (1 crime for every 1 criminal). Otherwise, you’re just siphoning off your denominator at a greater pace than your numerator, and you end up increasing the per capita crime. What is your numerator and your denominator that you specify above? ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/219 "2005-10-02T21:00:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Question: If it is true that blacks commit more crimes per capita than the general population (which early posters in this thread have provided statistics for), how is bringing up that fact, in context, racist? > > . Because it is not the race that is the causal factor in criminality. You see, stipulating that aborting black babies would reduce crime indicates that there is a genetic predisposition. We are not just aborting black babies (along with any abby for that matter) who will be exposed to deleterious social forces that corrupt their socialization process and lead to criminality. We would be aborting them all, asserting that being black equals being criminal. The very definition of racism is the personal belief that one race is inherently superior to another race. Simply stating that more blacks are incarcerated per capita than whites is not racist, it is a fact. Failing to understand the myriad of social forces that result in this situation and concluding that blacks are simply more criminal in nature is racism. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155/220 "2005-10-02T21:11:59Z")
> [@fushj00mang](#): > > Um…don’t see if this has been said before, but for it to be genocide, wouldn’t the fetuses in-utero have to be regarded as fully human children? Which means that by your assertion that this was a call for genocide, all abortion is murder in the cruelest, most rephrehensable form? Not necessarily. Although one of the meanings of the word genocide is to actively kill members of a race, many sociologists and anthropologists have begun to use it more generally. For example, killing off a cultures way of life (such as the buffalo for the Native Americans) resulted in the genocide of a culture. Henceforth, if you let no blacks reproduce and force them to do so using a medical procedure against their will, you are destroying that ethnicity and, by most definitions, committing genocide. This is to avoid getting into a debate about abortion which I don’t think is at issue in this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/william-bennett-if-you-want-to-reduce-crime-abort-every-black-baby-in-america/324155.md?page=12)