# Willie Mays: since his playing days, was or is anyone better? Or who comes closest? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [June 19, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064 "2024-06-19T19:44:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/21 "2024-06-20T18:30:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I don’t think the DH part of that can be true, inasmuch as Schmidt’s team didn’t play in a DH league and he retired from the Phillies midseason, and midcontract. He was NEVER leaving Philly at that point. He was still playing third base, in fact. I don’t think he had any intention of playing for another team after spending his entire MLB career with the Phillies. There were reports before his retirement about opportunities for him, and the constant questions of whether he could still play\*. I don’t know if they were more than speculation, but nobody was doubting his ability to hit with power, he hit 35 HRs in 87. One report mentioned Baltimore, a city close to Philadelphia but I can’t see him going there after the '83 series, or really anywhere else. \*Philadelphia press was brutal to teams and players. Drive in runs today and you’re a hero, strike out tomorrow and you’re a bum. But the fans loved Mike the whole time. I went to games just to see him play. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/22 "2024-06-20T19:35:59Z")
It does nothing to take away from his greatness, but there were two All-Star games a season from 1959-1962, so some of the greats from those years have padded ASG appearance numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/23 "2024-06-20T19:37:29Z")
That’s hysterical. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/24 "2024-06-20T20:35:35Z")
In an alternate universe Mantle would have equaled or greatly outdistanced Mays. In the 1951 World Series Willie Mays hit a fly ball. Mantle’s knee exploded on a ball DiMaggio easily caught (he was ordered by Stengel to try and catch everything). Before that Mantle was considered one of if not the fastest player in baseball. Mantle didn’t even have surgery for 2 years. I’ve seen doctors speculate he played two seasons with a torn ACL, MCL and meniscus. He never had a full reconstruction. It wasn’t even available. He was never the same and he never reached his full potential. And he was still one of the best ever. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/25 "2024-06-20T21:03:00Z")
A great talent, to be sure. I remember watching a Giants game on TV where Mays hit a ground-rule double. Some years later, I was flipping channels and an _Ironside_ repeat came on where they were at that game! I believe it was this one - ["Ironside" The Laying on of Hands (TV Episode 1970) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0824010/) I tend to have a rather irreverent perspective on sports. As such, I note that “Boog” Powell had a better nickname, Rollie Fingers had a better mustache, Dock Ellis threw more no-hitters on acid and Joe DiMaggio married Marilyn Monroe, all accomplishments which eluded Mays. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/26 "2024-06-20T21:58:32Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Joe Posnanski has a similar discussion going, but I’m not a paid member, so I don’t get to see his answer. He lists Bonds as the 3rd best player in history, but teases the first couple paragraphs to suggest Bonds isn’t his GLB. He calls Bonds the greatest living ballplayer, but not the Greatest Living Ballplayer. He says “The GLB is the superstar parents and grandparents point to as baseball’s platonic ideal. The GLB represents so much more than himself—he represents 150-plus years of baseball, from Ned Williamson to Honus Wagner to Ty Cobb to Joe DiMaggio to Willie Mays.” He then considered Koufax, Yaz, Reggie, Bench, Schmidt, Henderson, Pujols, Ripken Jr., Trout, Betts and Ohtani. He eventually landed on Griffey Jr. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/27 "2024-06-21T06:54:55Z")
> [@Dropo](#): > > I tend to have a rather irreverent perspective on sports. As such, I note that “Boog” Powell had a better nickname, Rollie Fingers had a better mustache, Dock Ellis threw more no-hitters on acid and Joe DiMaggio married Marilyn Monroe, all accomplishments which eluded Mays. On his retirement, Henry Aaron led all major leaguers in home runs, and alphabetical order. He is now second on both lists, behind players for the Giants. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/28 "2024-06-21T12:05:45Z")
[Greatest living player/pitcher poll](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/polls-only-no-discussion/953642/5025) ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/29 "2024-06-21T15:20:15Z")
No Ichiro? Or Griffey? Why do you hate the Mariners? I like Ricky Henderson quite a bit, but I wouldn’t put him in the top 10 of greatest living players. Maybe top 20. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/30 "2024-06-21T18:02:08Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > No Ichiro? > Or Griffey? Why do you hate the Mariners? > > I like Ricky Henderson quite a bit, but I wouldn’t put him in the top 10 of greatest living players. Maybe top 20. If you go by WAR Ricky is 14th all time. 3rd highest living player. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/31 "2024-06-21T18:04:26Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > If you go by WAR I don’t. But I get what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/32 "2024-06-21T18:51:50Z")
Not that it applies to this thread, but I look at players in comparison to others who played in their era. The ones who played in the same parks, against the same pitchers (or hitters), against the same teams in their leagues. That gives me a much better idea of how they stand. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/33 "2024-06-22T23:54:34Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I like Ricky Henderson quite a bit, but I wouldn’t put him in the top 10 of greatest living players. Maybe top 20. Rickey, and he was WAY greater than Ichiro, and greater than Griffey. I sure can’t think of ten greater living players. Never mind WAR if you don’t like it, the guy was just an amazing player. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/34 "2024-06-23T02:17:22Z")
I agree with your entire assessment. The thing about Ruth was that he was also a great pitcher. Of course, Ohtani, if he stays healthy, could surpass him, but he only DHs. Incidentally, for pure fly shagging, Richie Ashburn regularly made 40-50 more putouts than Mays. But he had no power (something like 20 HRs in his lifetime, some inside the park) and no throwing arm (although he did throw out Cal Abrams at home in the bottom of the ninth in the last game of the 1950 season, allowing the Phils to win the pennant in the tenth). But overall, Mays was obviously way better. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/35 "2024-06-23T03:11:54Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Richie Ashburn regularly made 40-50 more putouts than Mays. - (Dimensions taken from the respective articles. Shibe Park 1950 **Deep Left Center** – 420 ft **Center Field** – 447 ft **Deep Right Center** – 405 ft Polo Grounds **Left-center** : 450 ft (137 m) **Center field** : 483 ft (147 m) **Right-center** : 449 ft (136 m) Mays had far more area to cover. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/36 "2024-06-23T03:56:14Z")
Wow that’s a lot of ground. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/37 "2024-06-23T05:05:30Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Wow that’s a lot of ground. Lucky for Mays he only had to play there for about 5 seasons. He started in 1951. They moved after the 1957 season. He missed over a year during the Korean War for military service. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2024, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/38 "2024-06-23T07:19:44Z")
No doubt. If he’d have been covering the outfield at the Polo Grounds in his 30s compared to the outfield at Candlestick Park, it would be a very different story. And arguably that would impact his offensive numbers. Candlestick Park outfield dimensions, in 1960 330 ft — in left field 397 ft — in left-center field 420 ft — in center field 397 ft — in right-center field 330 ft — in right field ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/39 "2024-06-24T11:59:45Z")
**CNN: Why Willie Mays, not Babe Ruth, was baseball’s greatest player** ➜ [https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/22/sport/willie-mays-greatest-baseball-player/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/22/sport/willie-mays-greatest-baseball-player/index.html) > “Willie Mays was the player who did everything better than anybody else,” said sportswriter Joe Posnanski. “That’s not to say he did every single thing better. Maybe he was not the greatest baserunner. But he was one of the best. Maybe not the greatest hitter, but again, one of the best. One of the best fielders. You put all of those things together and you have the most perfect player who ever lived.” And, > Jayson Stark, a baseball writer for The Athletic and a member of the writer’s wing of the Baseball Hall of Fame, noted that Mays is the only player to ever lead his league in all 10 of these key offensive categories: hits, runs, home runs, triples, stolen bases, batting average, on base percentage, slugging percentage, total bases, and walks. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/40 "2024-06-24T14:09:18Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Mays is the only player to ever lead his league in all 10 of these key offensive categories: hits, runs, home runs, triples, stolen bases, batting average, on base percentage, slugging percentage, total bases, and walks. This right here is the strongest argument yet for Mays being the best ever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064.md?page=3)