# Willie Mays: since his playing days, was or is anyone better? Or who comes closest? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [June 19, 2024, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064 "2024-06-19T19:44:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/41 "2024-06-24T14:12:59Z")
That settles the matter of Mays being the best all around player ever for me. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/42 "2024-06-24T15:29:42Z")
He’s also the only player to hit a home run in every inning from 1 through 16 (not in the same game, of course). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/43 "2024-06-24T15:42:00Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > (not in the same game, of course). That would need a game that goes to the 16th inning tied with at least a 15-15 score. That would be one hell of game. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/44 "2024-06-24T15:46:04Z")
I feel confident without looking it up that the record for most home runs hit by a single player in a single game is less than 16. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/45 "2024-06-24T15:50:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That would need a game that goes to the 16th inning tied with at least a 15-15 score. That would be one hell of game. It would have to be more than that. Mays’ team would have to bat around in order for him to come to bat in every inning. 9 at bats, 3 outs, 3 men left on base, means at least 3 runs score in each of the first 15 innings. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/46 "2024-06-24T15:58:09Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I feel confident without looking it up that the record for most home runs hit by a single player in a single game is less than 16. In the majors, the record is 4. It’s been done 18 times, including once by Mays. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/47 "2024-06-24T18:24:56Z")
Why are triples a key stat? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/48 "2024-06-24T18:36:24Z")
Isn’t it obvious? Great hitters and base runners get triples. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/49 "2024-06-24T18:50:06Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Why are triples a key stat? As @TriPolar said, it takes a combination of power AND speed to hit a triple. Not many players possess both. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/50 "2024-06-24T18:51:31Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > > [@Munch](#): > > > > (not in the same game, of course). > > That would need a game that goes to the 16th inning tied with at least a 15-15 score. That would be one hell of game. You’re assuming the home runs in each inning were in that same game. They weren’t. I’m pretty sure they weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/51 "2024-06-24T19:21:42Z")
They weren’t. I was just commenting on that non-existent game that looks like it would go into the 16th inning with according to @Robot_Arm at least at 45-45 tie score. I’m pretty sure we all would have heard of that game if it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/52 "2024-06-24T19:28:15Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Why are triples a key stat? They aren’t. But they are a _fun_ stat, as the triple is one of the most exciting plays in baseball. And when you see a guy who hits both a lot of triples _and_ home runs, you’re talking about a fairly unique player who does a lot of things really well. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/53 "2024-06-24T19:46:40Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > As @TriPolar said, it takes a combination of power AND speed to hit a triple. Not many players possess both. The classic triple is a line drive just inside the right-field foul line that rolls to the outfield wall. It’s a great play, but does it imply power from the hitter? ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/54 "2024-06-24T19:49:56Z")
Triples require power and speed. Having many triples means a person is powerful and fast. I think that’s why it’s a key stat. It’s an indicator that Mays had power, and he had speed, and he also had intelligence in base running — when to go, when to extend, and when not to do those. ETA — triples require power to put the ball deep into the outfield corners. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/55 "2024-06-24T19:57:36Z")
I agree with the comments re: triples—i.e., if you get a lot of ‘em, you’re doing a few things really well. But I will add that almost all of the triples I’ve seen are attributable to a couple of things: a slow outfielder who misplayed the trajectory of the ball, or who bobbled the ball but not quite enough for it to be deemed an error, or a crazy bounce off an outfield wall that sends the ball rolling 50 feet away. Still, these things generally only occur with a ball rocketed to the nether regions of the outfield combined with a swift base runner. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/56 "2024-06-24T20:27:21Z")
Yeah, a triple requires a misplay somewhere in the outfield, but it also requires a fast runner to take advantage of what someone slower would be happy to take a double from. I mean, if Frank Thomas and Willie Mays in their respective primes hit the same ball and got the same play on it, The Big Hurt is standing on second while Willie is at full speed crusing into third and drawing a throw. I kinda agree with @Snarky_Kong about the “keyness” of triples as a stat (as well as steals and, as long as you’re already using OBP, batting average) - they just don’t represent events that win baseball games regularly as well as the other stats. But, one thing those stats have going for them is the excitement factor - a base hit is more exciting than a walk, a steal is a bang-bang footrace where the pitcher, catcher and shortstop have to execute perfectly against a runner’s speed, and a triple is more slowly-developing but equally frenzied right at the end. And the fact that Mays was so good at them _as well as_ the standard, accurate measures of effectiveness at winning baseball? Greatness of a player should include the level of excitement and anticipation they bring to the game. By that standard, I can’t think of many greater than Mays. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/57 "2024-06-24T20:33:55Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It’s a great play, but does it imply power from the hitter? Well, it’s certainly not a bloop hit into the outfield, nor is it a ground ball through the infield. It’s a line drive that that reaches the wall, and fairly quickly, otherwise the outfielder will cut off the ball before it can get to the wall. Once it hits the wall, the ball usually has enough juice to bounce around a bit, making it tougher for the outfielder to corral it and throw it back to the infield. ETA: Ninja’ed by others! ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/58 "2024-06-24T22:40:41Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Well, it’s certainly not a bloop hit into the outfield, nor is it a ground ball through the infield. It’s a line drive that that reaches the wall, and fairly quickly, otherwise the outfielder will cut off the ball before it can get to the wall. Once it hits the wall, the ball usually has enough juice to bounce around a bit, making it tougher for the outfielder to corral it and throw it back to the infield. Yes, and it often takes an unexpected carom. Still, I tend to think of a power hitter as someone who can hit the ball over the outfield wall. Are there really that many major leagues who can’t hit a line drive that (suitably aimed to avoid any fielders) reaches the wall? Looking at some other prolific hitters of triples, some have good home run totals, some not so much. Mays could do both, but I think triples are more an indication of speed than power. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/59 "2024-06-24T23:16:02Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Are there really that many major leagues who can’t hit a line drive that (suitably aimed to avoid any fielders) reaches the wall? Probably none who can’t. But how many do so often? Because you have to hit a bunch of them for a few to turn into triples. Guys who hit screamers to deep regions A LOT are generally considered power hitters. I’ve seen plenty of line drive, gap hitters who get their 90 RBIs. They aren’t hitting bleeders. But, yes, speed is essential to hitting a lot of triples. Anyone can hit a one-off that takes a crazy carom that runs away 50 feet, even the slow guys. Well, not the slowest guys. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2024, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064/60 "2024-06-24T23:21:59Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > But, yes, speed is essential to hitting a lot of triples. Anyone can hit a one-off that takes a crazy carom that runs away 50 feet, even the slow guys. **Well, not the slowest guys.** [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/1Z76ikGhpww/maxresdefault.jpg "Molina hits for the cycle in Boston") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z76ikGhpww&t=61) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willie-mays-since-his-playing-days-was-or-is-anyone-better-or-who-comes-closest/1003064.md?page=4)