I don’t think he had any intention of playing for another team after spending his entire MLB career with the Phillies. There were reports before his retirement about opportunities for him, and the constant questions of whether he could still play*. I don’t know if they were more than speculation, but nobody was doubting his ability to hit with power, he hit 35 HRs in 87. One report mentioned Baltimore, a city close to Philadelphia but I can’t see him going there after the '83 series, or really anywhere else.
*Philadelphia press was brutal to teams and players. Drive in runs today and you’re a hero, strike out tomorrow and you’re a bum. But the fans loved Mike the whole time. I went to games just to see him play.
It does nothing to take away from his greatness, but there were two All-Star games a season from 1959-1962, so some of the greats from those years have padded ASG appearance numbers.
In an alternate universe Mantle would have equaled or greatly outdistanced Mays.
In the 1951 World Series Willie Mays hit a fly ball. Mantle’s knee exploded on a ball DiMaggio easily caught (he was ordered by Stengel to try and catch everything). Before that Mantle was considered one of if not the fastest player in baseball. Mantle didn’t even have surgery for 2 years. I’ve seen doctors speculate he played two seasons with a torn ACL, MCL and meniscus. He never had a full reconstruction. It wasn’t even available. He was never the same and he never reached his full potential. And he was still one of the best ever.
A great talent, to be sure. I remember watching a Giants game on TV where Mays hit a ground-rule double. Some years later, I was flipping channels and an Ironside repeat came on where they were at that game! I believe it was this one - "Ironside" The Laying on of Hands (TV Episode 1970) - IMDb
I tend to have a rather irreverent perspective on sports. As such, I note that “Boog” Powell had a better nickname, Rollie Fingers had a better mustache, Dock Ellis threw more no-hitters on acid and Joe DiMaggio married Marilyn Monroe, all accomplishments which eluded Mays.
He calls Bonds the greatest living ballplayer, but not the Greatest Living Ballplayer. He says “The GLB is the superstar parents and grandparents point to as baseball’s platonic ideal. The GLB represents so much more than himself—he represents 150-plus years of baseball, from Ned Williamson to Honus Wagner to Ty Cobb to Joe DiMaggio to Willie Mays.”
He then considered Koufax, Yaz, Reggie, Bench, Schmidt, Henderson, Pujols, Ripken Jr., Trout, Betts and Ohtani. He eventually landed on Griffey Jr.
On his retirement, Henry Aaron led all major leaguers in home runs, and alphabetical order. He is now second on both lists, behind players for the Giants.
Not that it applies to this thread, but I look at players in comparison to others who played in their era. The ones who played in the same parks, against the same pitchers (or hitters), against the same teams in their leagues. That gives me a much better idea of how they stand.
I agree with your entire assessment. The thing about Ruth was that he was also a great pitcher. Of course, Ohtani, if he stays healthy, could surpass him, but he only DHs. Incidentally, for pure fly shagging, Richie Ashburn regularly made 40-50 more putouts than Mays. But he had no power (something like 20 HRs in his lifetime, some inside the park) and no throwing arm (although he did throw out Cal Abrams at home in the bottom of the ninth in the last game of the 1950 season, allowing the Phils to win the pennant in the tenth). But overall, Mays was obviously way better.
Lucky for Mays he only had to play there for about 5 seasons. He started in 1951. They moved after the 1957 season. He missed over a year during the Korean War for military service.
No doubt. If he’d have been covering the outfield at the Polo Grounds in his 30s compared to the outfield at Candlestick Park, it would be a very different story. And arguably that would impact his offensive numbers.
Candlestick Park outfield dimensions, in 1960
330 ft — in left field
397 ft — in left-center field
420 ft — in center field
397 ft — in right-center field
330 ft — in right field
“Willie Mays was the player who did everything better than anybody else,” said sportswriter Joe Posnanski. “That’s not to say he did every single thing better. Maybe he was not the greatest baserunner. But he was one of the best. Maybe not the greatest hitter, but again, one of the best. One of the best fielders. You put all of those things together and you have the most perfect player who ever lived.”
And,
Jayson Stark, a baseball writer for The Athletic and a member of the writer’s wing of the Baseball Hall of Fame, noted that Mays is the only player to ever lead his league in all 10 of these key offensive categories: hits, runs, home runs, triples, stolen bases, batting average, on base percentage, slugging percentage, total bases, and walks.