# Willing to be teleported as in Star Trek? I'm not. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 23, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544 "2013-09-23T21:19:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/81 "2013-09-24T20:21:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **mlees** : > > It seems to me that there is no reason why the transporter couldn’t create a clone army of Kirk’s or Khan Signh’s, by bypassing the subroutine that decontructs the original. I don’t recall the canon explanation for this. The deconstruction isn’t a “subroutine”. It’s how the transporter gets the information to begin with. It’s then stored in a transferrable but non-copiable form for however long it takes, and then transferred to the new body as it forms (which removes it from the buffer). And yes, as already mentioned, I’m ignoring the episodes where the transporter produces a duplicate as not making sense. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/82 "2013-09-24T20:33:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The deconstruction isn’t a “subroutine”. It’s how the transporter gets the information to begin with. It’s then stored in a transferrable but non-copiable form for however long it takes, and then transferred to the new body as it forms (which removes it from the buffer). And replicators are different because? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/83 "2013-09-24T20:40:30Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > So what? The “totally unrelated” me can’t tell the difference, and neither can anyone else. Are you an infant? Do you believe the world vanishes when you close your eyes? Do you believe that magicians actually perform supernatural feats? Or are you capable of using logic to extrapolate beyond what your senses tell you? Imagine if the teleporter used the same position as transmitter and receiver: it just tore you apart and then put “you” together. Would you claim that despite _knowing_ that this is how the machine functions, it hadn’t done anything at all? > [@](#): > > I’ll ask the question that no one answered in the GD thread: your best friend uses a transporter to go on vacation to the Bahamas. He comes back. Do you say, “Hi, welcome back, how was it?” Or do you say, “Go away. You are dead. I do not talk to dead people. Never come near me again?” I _did_ answer your question. They, the person who was on vacation, and the person who decided to go on vacation are three different people. Two of them committed suicide just to avoid a plane trip, and the third is literally just as stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/84 "2013-09-24T22:01:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The deconstruction isn’t a “subroutine”. It’s how the transporter gets the information to begin with. It’s then stored in a transferrable but non-copiable form for however long it takes, and then transferred to the new body as it forms (which removes it from the buffer). > > And yes, as already mentioned, I’m ignoring the episodes where the transporter produces a duplicate as not making sense. There are no episodes in which transporter technology makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/85 "2013-09-24T23:14:25Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > It was just recently done to death and back (and then to death again, only to be resurrected so it could be beaten, poisoned, hanged, shot three times and dumped in a freezing river to make sure it was done to death _properly_) in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=700599) thread. Rasputin, is that you? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/86 "2013-09-25T00:22:48Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > “Wolf in the Fold?” I think that is the Jack the Ripper story by Bloch. I suspect you mean the one by Matheson in the first season. . . . Oops, yes! The one with “good Kirk/bad Kirk.” > [@](#): > > To add another factor, I’m pretty sure that by TNG time they could fiddle with what is in the pattern buffer, for instance removing contaminants. TOS did not have this capability. Yep; established in TNG. And…what a can of worms! Why do “surgery” when you can do “information-based surgery.” Want to take out someone’s appendix? Just don’t re-materialize it! (And re-materialize some inert matter in its place to seal off the blood vessels.) > [@Diceman](#): > > . . . This could actually make a fascinating movie. The crew of the Enterprise finally realizes that there’s no reason why they can’t make a backup copy of themselves, just in case. Before long, this leads to them beaming clones down into all manor of horribly dangerous situations. Because who cares if your clone gets torn limb from limb by the slime monsters, when you get to stay on the ship safe & sound? . . . And, indeed, keep another backup on earth, safe and sound in a vault somewhere. Meanwhile, the Klingons use the technology to create vast armies of “clone warriors.” Who fears death, when one is not a living individual in the first place? > [@drewtwo99](#): > > . . . I’d use it, even though I’m pretty sure “my” consciousness would end, and another one that believes it is “me” and is identical to “me” in every way starts somewhere else. To the new me, and the universe as a whole, it doesn’t really matter. There are no tests you can perform to determine whether the new me is really me or just a copy. . . . > > For that matter though, to make it clear, I believe that I am constantly being replaced by a copy, possibly every single moment in time the old “me” is dying and a new “me” is taking over in his place. I don’t see the teleporter issue as any different. This! Absolute agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/87 "2013-09-25T00:39:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **mlees** : > > And replicators are different because? Replicators don’t need to produce a perfect copy, just a pretty good copy. That’s doable via classical information, which can be duplicated effortlessly. For a working living conscious organism, though, you need quantum information, which resists duplication. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/88 "2013-09-25T13:57:58Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Leaving her clone of a clone to take the fall for a murder charge? Sounds like a never ending story of betrayal and mayhem! Actually, nobody knows the original Dr. Crusher has been killed. The murder happens out in the woods or something, without witnesses. Clone Crusher just steps into the original’s life, and begins a plan to exact revenge on the crew of the Enterprise. About halfway through the movie, the crew of the Enterprise would kill Clone Crusher, and then attempt to use the backup copy (stored in computer memory) to resurrect the original. For about five minutes it looks like this worked. Then it turns out that they just ressurected the evil clone again. She “updated” the backup copy to reflect her current state, and the original has now been overwritten and is lost forever. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/89 "2013-09-25T14:10:47Z")
It’s clones all the way down. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/90 "2013-09-25T15:09:44Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > To the new me, and the universe as a whole, it doesn’t really matter. There are no tests you can perform to determine whether the new me is really me or just a copy. He will believe he is me, and have the memory of transporting and everything, so, yay. > > So yes, sign me up. And I honestly think that my consciousness will end when they flip the switch, and a new one somewhere else exactly like me will begin. And I am ok with that. This is insanity, or at the very least suicidal. You are saying you have no problem with ending your life, ending your consciousness, as long as nothing in the universe changes after you die. Who CARES what the universe is like, once YOU are no more? This whole argument is exactly like the story of the kid on the beach, throwing starfish into the ocean. An adult who “knows better” stops the kid and says “Look at the thousands of starfish washed up on this beach! You can’t possibly make a meaningful difference. Just give it up.” The kid picks up one more starfish and chucks it into the ocean and says, “It mattered to that one.” It may not matter to the universe, but it sure matters to the poor sap being transported. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/91 "2013-09-25T16:55:11Z")
The poor sap being transported is the same poor sap that steps out on the other end. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/92 "2013-09-25T17:14:33Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > It’s clones all the way down. Send them in! Oh, never mind. I see that they already showed up. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/93 "2013-09-25T17:49:48Z")
And now a perhaps even more mystifying question: How have the Big Bang Theory guys avoided this discussion? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/94 "2013-09-25T17:57:53Z")
> [@TV\_time](#): > > And now a perhaps even more mystifying question: How have the Big Bang Theory guys avoided this discussion? […they haven’t?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mZypGGOEco) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/95 "2013-09-25T18:43:44Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Are you an infant? Do you believe the world vanishes when you close your eyes? This is sort of funny, because for a while now, I’ve been trying to figure out how to make an analogy between the “teleport equal death” crowd, and infants not understanding object permanence. Never could figure out a way to do it without coming off like a dick, though. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/96 "2013-09-25T19:17:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The poor sap being transported is the same poor sap that steps out on the other end. Sure, to everyone ELSE. But from that poor sap’s perspective, the entire universe HAS ceased to exist. In this case, the peekaboo toddler is RIGHT. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/97 "2013-09-25T19:36:38Z")
No, from that poor sap’s point of view, the entire Universe has moved some distance thataways. He was in one place, now he’s in a different place. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/98 "2013-09-25T19:40:36Z")
That’s how the guy who steps OUT of the teleporter would feel, yes. But the guy who stepped in? He is no more. He feels nothing. He’s dead. And many of you seem willing to take his place. That’s what I can’t fathom. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/99 "2013-09-25T19:46:29Z")
> [@Sterling\_Archer](#): > > That’s how the guy who steps OUT of the teleporter would feel, yes. But the guy who stepped in? He is no more. He feels nothing. He’s dead. And many of you seem willing to take his place. That’s what I can’t fathom. No, he’s not. He’s right there. Go ahead, ask him anything. Try to prove he’s a different person. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544/100 "2013-09-25T19:55:38Z")
Sigh – are you only able to see this from other’s perspectives? The problem is not dealing with other individuals who have been destroyed and recreated, the problem is stepping into the disintegration machine yourself. You won’t be able to prove anything. You won’t be here. Oh yeah, I’m sure the COPY will do a great job proving that he is exactly like you., but that won’t matter. You won’t be experiencing it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willing-to-be-teleported-as-in-star-trek-im-not/669544.md?page=6)