# Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 22, 2001, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294 "2001-01-22T18:21:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/21 "2001-01-23T13:46:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by C K Dexter Haven \* > **BTW, has anyone heard the rumour that a remake is being considered with Nicholas Cage as Willie Wonka?** Yes, as a matter of fact, I _did_ hear or read that somewhere. At first I was slightly appalled, as I don’t believe Nicholas Cage can sing :eek: (“Come with me, and you’ll see, a whole world of pure imagination…”). But then I got to thinking about what modern CGI and other special effects can do to that scene when they first enter the main room of the Factory… Now I’m hoping it happens. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bottle\_of\_Smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Bottle\_of\_Smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bottle_of_Smoke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/22 "2001-01-23T15:16:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slithy Tove \* > \*\*Did they show the chicken decapitation? \*\* Yup, they sure did. In all its glory. I thought my kids (ages 5 and 4) might be freaked out by it, but I’m not sure they really realized what they were seeing. ---
**Author:** ![Rosebud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rosebud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rosebud)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/23 "2001-01-23T15:38:09Z")
I’m gonna agree with the posters who are saying he was just messing with the kids & parents’ heads. I absolutely don’t see WW as an asshole-- I _love_ that character, and I always saw him as someone who didn’t suffer fools gladly, be they children or grown-ups. There’s very much a sense that he had most of them figured out more or less on sight, and I like to interpret the boat ride scene as WW giving a well deserved tweak to the little brats and to their equally bratty parents. I think we’re supposed to conclude that he knew all along that Charlie would be The One, though that does make you wonder why he risked frightening Charlie along with the others. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/24 "2001-01-23T16:52:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by QUASIMODEM \* > \*\* > \*\* but the city the glass elevator flies over is Nordlingen. \*\* [/QUOTE] Are you sure? Rothenburg ob der Tauber just happens to be a village next to Nordlingen, and that wall and tower sure look like Rothenburg. I couldn’t find any corroboration of my theory on any of the WW sites, so you may be right, but I was just in Rothenburg in November, bought a panoramic view screen-saver of the town and it sure looks like that’s what I saw in the movie. Q \*\* [/QUOTE] I KNEW it looked familliar! I’m on your side…that definetly is Rothenburg. Beautiful town, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/25 "2001-01-23T16:56:21Z")
I was just quoting info from IMDB, so another city could be the right answer. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/26 "2001-01-23T17:54:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rosebud \* > \*\*I absolutely don’t see WW as an asshole-- I _love_ that character, and I always saw him as someone who didn’t suffer fools gladly, be they children or grown-ups. \*\* Ditto ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/27 "2001-01-23T20:49:17Z")
During my own acid phase, I became obsessed with drawing parallels between the psychedelic experience and various initation rituals. I saw similarities in the “Greek” fraternity initiation, various tribal initations, the plot of the _Star Wars_ trilogy, and even the experience of Christ. WWATCF fit perfectly, and it was the boat ride scene which clinched it for me. The basic scenario is that you’re lured into a wonderous new world only to later find yourself confronted with demons of fear and temptation. By resisting and remaining true to yourself and being willing to sacrifice all, you pass the test and achieve true enlightenment. During the boat ride we see scary monsters as well as a glimpse of the sinister Gobb Slugworth, who represents not a physical threat but a spiritual one. This is highly reminicent of the demonic imagery you see in the depths of an acid trip. Slugworth has offered Charlie a considerable sum if he would betray Wonka and deliver a sample of the “everlasting gobbstopper”, but in the end Charlie resists the temptation and returns the gobbstopper to Wonka out of pure selflessness and passes the test. A scene in _The Empire Strikes Back_ where Luke contronts a phantom Darth Vader only to have it turn into himself also touches a psychedelic nerve. The demons are a refection of your dark side and you must resist their offers of power or become wrapped up in evil. ---
**Author:** ![RailroadShorty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/858c86/32.png) [@RailroadShorty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RailroadShorty)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/28 "2001-01-23T22:01:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Did they show the chicken decapitation? There’s a chicken decapitated with an ax, a man with some kind of worm or snake crawling on his face, a giant eye, a lizard eating some other living creature, and Slugworth. That’s all I remember, having finished watching it literally minutes ago on DVD before stumbling upon this thread. BTW, the DVD is out of print now and selling for $50+ on Ebay. I wonder if a 30th Anniversary edition is in the works? > [@](#): > > My guess is the “trippy” scene in the movie is an attempt at a “scary” scene that won’t hit the 'ol special effects budget very hard. When you think about how much more expensive it would’ve been to make a high-speed boat ride underground than it was to make the scene in the movie (where they basically just sit in the boat while colored lights flash and Wonka talks in a spooky voice), my point becomes clear. I disagree here. There used to be a ride at Disney World that consisted of a conveyance that moved at a snail’s pace while scenery (on film) whipped past, giving the passengers a disorienting sense of high-speed movement. This kind of mind-trip is arguably more freaky than the straightforward thrill of a rollercoaster, for example. I think Wonka was screwing with his guests’ perceptions, making them uncertain of what they saw with their own eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Inky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7feea3/32.png) [@Inky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inky_1)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/29 "2001-01-23T22:36:37Z")
It’s a “Gateway” scene. A point at which, if the characters choose to pass through, nothing will ever be the same. You see this in movies like Star Wars when Luke enters the Cantina full of weird creatures or the tree on Degobah (sp?) where he confronts the Luke/Vader vision. Or in The Wizard of Oz where Dorothy steps from her black and white Kansas home into the Technocolor Oz. Anythings possible from that point on. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/30 "2001-01-23T23:20:56Z")
Well, **Inky]**, I would think that the gateway scene in WW was when they passed through the _gateway_ into the “Chocolate Room” (where everything was edible). You are correct in that the Cantina scene in SW:ANH was the gateway, but there wouldn’t be 2 in the same story. My assertion is that the tree/cave scene in SW:TESB along with the boat scene in WW is where the hero glimpses his deepest fears. (Shades of Joseph Campbell here, but in fact I developed my theories before I ever heard of him) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2001, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/31 "2001-01-23T23:56:49Z")
Oh! I love that movie, it’s one of my faves. Yeah the boat ride always got to me. Though I watched it when I was young and never really thought about it that much. When I got older, I started realizing…WTF? I always thought Wonka was pretty cool back then. When I re-viewed it on TBS a few months ago, I started to dislike him a bit. Considering that what the kids do isn’t all that bad. Eating a lot is disgusting but hardly makes one morally depraved…chewing gum- an obnoxious habit sometimes, but still. And he hardly makes any efforts to stop them- its as if he wants them to get screwed up. Sort of a mean spirited movie/book. Not that that’s bad; at least its a change from the oh so saccharine sweet Disney books. Still, that scene with Mike Teevee running to get himself shrunk the size of the candy bar…Willy Wonka: \ “Oh, stop, come back…” You can tell he really doens’t give a damn. 🙂 I was wondering, too, what nationality they were supposed to be? Violet Buregarde seems a parody of what Brits think of Americans (loud, obnoxious, pushy- her father’s a car salesman…) and Augustus Gloop a parody of Germans. (Some xenophobia, here, no? :p) I always assumed Charlie would be English too, since Roald Dahl was. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/32 "2001-01-24T00:58:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RailroadShorty \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > My guess is the “trippy” scene in the movie is an attempt at a “scary” scene that won’t hit the 'ol special effects budget very hard. > > I disagree here. There used to be a ride at Disney World that consisted of a conveyance that moved at a snail’s pace while scenery (on film) whipped past, giving the passengers a disorienting sense of high-speed movement. This kind of mind-trip is arguably more freaky than the straightforward thrill of a rollercoaster, for example. I think Wonka was screwing with his guests’ perceptions, making them uncertain of what they saw with their own eyes. \*\* I wasn’t talking about the potential motivation of the Wonka character in the movie, but why the scene in the movie is fundamentally different from the same incident in the book. It would’ve been a lot cheaper to make it the way they did in the movie than to film it exactly as portrayed in the book. ---
**Author:** ![Danielinthewolvesden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Danielinthewolvesden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danielinthewolvesden)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/33 "2001-01-24T02:03:36Z")
However- each kid/parent team gets disqualified because they disobey the rules. But so do Charly & gramps- what makes their “sin” forgivable? ---
**Author:** ![Swampwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Swampwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swampwolf)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/34 "2001-01-24T02:14:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* > \*\*However- each kid/parent team gets disqualified because they disobey the rules. But so do Charly & gramps- what makes their “sin” forgivable? \*\* repentance. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/35 "2001-01-24T02:34:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kilgore Trout \* > **this scene fits perfectly, especially with wonka’s character. he is a sadistic madman. that is all.** Yay! Someone else who gets that! He’s a sadistic, manipulative EVIL little psychopath. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/36 "2001-01-24T02:59:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* > \*\*However- each kid/parent team gets disqualified because they disobey the rules. But so do Charly & gramps- what makes their “sin” forgivable? \*\* First of all, the other kids do their “sin” after Wonka specifically tells them _not_ to do it. For example, after he tells Augustus Gloop _not_ to jump into the river of chocolate, etc. Granted, by the time Mike shrinks himself, Wonka is treating the kids’ disobedience with hostile indifference. As in, [bored]“No. Stop. Don’t.”[/bored] Also, each of the other kids’ “sins” is related to a character flaw. Veruca=greed, Augustus=gluttony, Mike=obsession with TV, and Violet=uh, too much gum-chewing 😕. Charlie’s only character flaw seems to be curiossity; a trait that Wonka can obviously embrace. ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/37 "2001-01-24T03:37:26Z")
> [@](#): > > However- each kid/parent team gets disqualified because they disobey the rules. But so do Charly & gramps- what makes their “sin” forgivable? It was redemption. Charly & gramps sin was just as damnable as the others, but it wasn’t really those sins that Wonka was concerned with. Wonka was really concerned with honesty and loyalty to the chocolate factory–Charly redeemed himself by returning the Everlasting Gobstopper. “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/38 "2001-01-24T12:27:46Z")
Gene Wilder’s finest and most complete performance, eclipsing even _Young Frankenstein_ 🙂 . A wonderful film, right down to the glossed over griminess of the Chocolate Factory. You can see real factory walls behind the pretty crepe paper and wondrous sights - an perhaps unintentional, but wonderful comment on many of the characters ans situations. It also helps add to the undertone of menace. Didn’t see any mention of it yet, so I thought I would add that the little poem Wilder recites during the ride is lifted straight from the book ( unlike, I believe, some of the Oompa-Loompa rhymes ). I think this is actually one of the most important scenes in the film, trippy as it is. Because I do think it is that hint of menace that adds such tension to what otherwise would be a straight comedy ( albeit a smirking one 😉 ). It’s the edginess that elevates this film head and shoulders over more saccharine “family” pictures. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![dewt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@dewt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dewt)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/39 "2001-01-24T15:33:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rastahomie \* > **Great movie. It was on ABC last night. > I never understood the reason for having such a hideous and disturbing scene in an otherwise uplifting and fun movie. So my question is… WTF???** If I had to choose adjectives to describe this movie, _fun_ and _uplifting_ would not immediately spring to mind. _‘Disturbing’_? Most definitely. In fact, on many levels I’d say this is one of the most disturbing movies I’ve ever seen. As for hideous, I find the movie packed with different aspects of the hideousness theme. The archetypes of the kids behaviours, for example. I’m a parent, and watching those kids made me want to pull out my hair and light my legs on fire. oh… Willy Wonka rules. Anyone who feels differently can feel free to [step outside](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=56998). ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/40 "2001-01-24T17:14:52Z")
Fun and uplifting, and disturbing? Can’t it be both? 🙂 It sort of freaks me out, but at the same time i recall it with fond memories. 🙂 Does anyone know the name of the poem he recites? It sounds familiar, like a famous poem or something. I’ll have to check out the book if I still own it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294.md?page=3)