# Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 22, 2001, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294 "2001-01-22T18:21:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/41 "2001-01-24T20:54:44Z")
I also watched the 30th Anniv edition. I loved the book (and re-read it in my junior year of college, which was only about 5 years go) and found Willy Wonka an eccentric yet lovable character. In the movie he is terrifyingly psychotic. I agree that the fact that movie makes no effort to show that the kids really ARE okay make it look like he has murdered them in cold blood. Just a flat-out disturbing movie. There is also something in the general atmosphere of the movie that creates an ominous feeling. I can’t put my finger on it. All I know is, if I were Charlie, I wouldn’t be geting into an enclosed space with Wonka at the end of the movie; I’d be running like hell. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/42 "2001-01-24T21:32:28Z")
Zoggie, not sure which poem you’re talking about, but one famous poem that’s quoted in WW is “The Music Makers” by Arthur O’Shaunessy: The Music Makers We are the music-makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams, wandering by lone sea-breakers, and sitting by desolate streams; World-losers and world-forsakers, on whom the pale moon gleams; Yet we are the movers and shakers of the world forever, it seems. We, in the ages lying in the buried past of the earth, built Nineveh with our sighing, and Babel itself with our mirth; And o’erthrew them with prophesying to the old of the new world’s worth; for each age is a dream that is dying, Or one that is coming to birth. I don’t know if the boat ride quote is original or taken from some other source…I do know, though, that Marilyn Manson borrows it on his album “Portrait of an American Family.” Willy Wonka’s been one of my favorite movies since I first saw it in the theater at age 6. ---
**Author:** ![tsarina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@tsarina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsarina)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2001, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/43 "2001-01-24T22:21:48Z")
Does Willy Wonka remind anyone else here of Lewis Carroll? The magical fairy-land, the plays on logic, the strange relationships with small people, even a slight physical resemblance between Carroll and Gene Wilder in the movie (I think so). … I wouldn’t trust him with kids - the way he gazes at Mike Teevee creeps me out. doom-pi-ty doo… ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/44 "2001-05-29T19:42:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rastahomie \* > **Also, each of the other kids’ “sins” is related to a character flaw. Veruca=greed, Augustus=gluttony, Mike=obsession with TV, and Violet=uh, too much gum-chewing.** Wasn’t Violet the annoying girl who rarely stopped talking? Didn’t Wonka tell her she’d learn more if she kept her mouth shut and her ears open? She didn’t and that was her sin. She’s self-centered and doesn’t know how annoying she is. How was she punished? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/45 "2001-05-29T21:28:00Z")
She was turned into a giant blueberry. Let THAT be a leson to all the talkative, self-centered, annoying people out there! ---
**Author:** ![Protesilaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Protesilaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Protesilaus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2001, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/46 "2001-05-29T21:30:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > **Wasn’t Violet the annoying girl who rarely stopped talking?** They were both sort of like that. > [@](#): > > **Didn’t Wonka tell her she’d learn more if she kept her mouth shut and her ears open? She didn’t and that was her sin.** Except the song afterwards is all about gum. Your idea makes more sense. > [@](#): > > \*\*How was she punished? \*\* She chewed gum that turned her into a giant blueberry. ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/47 "2001-05-30T00:48:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sqweels \* > My assertion is that the tree/cave scene in SW:TESB along with the boat scene in WW is where the hero glimpses his deepest fears. Mythologically speaking, the boat ride would represent a journey to the underworld (or the subconscious, depending on how you want to look at it) followed by a kind of re-birth. I don’t remember the movie very well, or what they see during the ride, but the boat ride itself suggests that some kind of transformation is going on, or that the characters are gaining some kind of insight that is important for the resolution of the story (quest). Then again, I could be talking out of my hat. Alice’s entry into Wonderland is also a descent into the underworld, BTW. Literally. rivulus ---
**Author:** ![demanton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@demanton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/demanton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/48 "2001-05-30T05:31:14Z")
Veruca’s line during the boat ride sequence was classic, very telling of the mood of the scene: “What is this? A freak-out?” \*there’s no earthly way of knowing, which way the rowers they are rowing… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/49 "2001-05-30T08:11:45Z")
People, didn’t you watch the ending? (Okay, Cabbage did.) Charlie was redeemed and the other kids weren’t because he was the only one who returned his Everlasting Gobstopper back to Willy Wonka rather than sell it to Slugworth. By not betraying a trust, even when he had himself been betrayed, he proved he was worthy to be Wonka’s successor. > [@](#): > > Did they show the chicken decapitation? > [@](#): > > Yup, they sure did. In all its glory. I thought my kids (ages 5 and 4) might be freaked out by it, but I’m not sure they really realized what they were seeing. You’d be surprised. I took my four year old nieces to see _Chicken Run_ last year. When they showed the scene where Mrs Tully picks out a hen who wasn’t laying eggs and a few scenes later show her finishing up her Sunday dinner, I was hoping the girls wouldn’t make the connection. But Leah looked over and solemnly informed me, “She ate the chicken.” ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/50 "2001-05-30T08:44:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Does Willy Wonka remind anyone else here of Lewis Carroll? Well, strange relationships with small people is a good analogy. Although Carroll didn’t give young boys the time of day… he was only interested in little girls. But I can’t seem him terrorizing kids the way Wonka does. Willy Wonka reminds me of Dr. Who or Jeremy Brett’s Sherlock Holmes. They’re very condescending, prone to random outbursts and shouting, and not a little unsettling in general but they’ve got a force of personality such that people seem more than willing to put up with them just to see what they will do. And their hearts are in the right place. Both of them, in the Doctor’s case, he he he. -fh ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/51 "2001-05-30T12:43:41Z")
**Secret Social Agendas Part ??** I think this film’s portayal of Willy Wonka can be looked at from two different points of view. 1. It’s good to be different, because you can do anything you want. Yes it’s a little scary, but that’s the price you pay for being different. 2. It’s bad to be different. To be different is to be scary/frightening/nuts. If you think about it, this whole movie plays off the old mad scientist stereotype. I.E.: A man so obsessed with his experiments he doesn’t care who they hurt. 3.Hi, Opal! BTW: I think this book is slanted towards children. “If you bad and you don’t do what your parents tell you, you’ll get in trouble.” ---
**Author:** ![Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/52 "2001-05-30T13:00:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Zoggie \* > \*\*Does anyone know the name of the poem he recites? It sounds familiar, like a famous poem or something. I’ll have to check out the book if I still own it. \*\* I don’t know the name of it (or if it even has a name), but here’s the poem from the tunnel scene: > [@](#): > > There’s no earthly way of knowing > Which direction we are going > There’s no knowing where we’re going > Or which way the wind is blowing > Is it raining? Is it snowing > Is a hurricane a-blowing > Not a speck of light is showing > So the danger must be growing > Oh, the fires of hell are glowing > Is the grisly reaper mowing > Yes! The danger must be growing > For the rowers keep on rowing > And they’re certainly not showing > Any signs that they are slowing! > Stop the boat! ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/53 "2001-05-30T13:21:04Z")
I’d say Dahl was pretty unconventional all around. Check out _ **Switch Bitch** _ if you get the chance; not psychadelic, but a great read. \*\* [/QUOTE] =========================== Dahl’s definitely 3 degrees out of phase with the rest of us! I absolutely love his short story where the wife beats her husband’s head in with a frozen leg of lamb, then winds up serving the lamb as dinner to the investigating cops. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/54 "2001-05-30T14:54:23Z")
While spending a few days alone in a rural Thai hospital being treated for pneumonia, I read the Collected Short Stories. It added greatly to my otherworldly feelings. I still reread that book from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/55 "2001-05-30T15:09:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Little Nemo \* > > > [@](#): > > > > Did they show the chicken decapitation? > > > [@](#): > > > > Yup, they sure did. In all its glory. I thought my kids (ages 5 and 4) might be freaked out by it, but I’m not sure they really realized what they were seeing. > > You’d be surprised. I took my four year old nieces to see _Chicken Run_ last year. When they showed the scene where Mrs Tully picks out a hen who wasn’t laying eggs and a few scenes later show her finishing up her Sunday dinner, I was hoping the girls wouldn’t make the connection. But Leah looked over and solemnly informed me, “She ate the chicken.”\*\* Heh. Not long after my kids saw _Chicken Run_, we were eating at Boston Market and my five-year-old started asking me what they did with the chickens’ heads. Fortunately, I was able to find out for him despite the fact that I wasn’t then hooked into this wonderfully weird board. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/56 "2001-05-30T17:36:39Z")
That’s easy… They sell the heads to [McDonalds](http://www.snopes.com/horrors/food/friedrat.htm)! ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/57 "2001-05-30T21:26:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Protesilaus \* > > > [@](#): > > > > How was she punished? > > \*\* > She chewed gum that turned her into a giant blueberry. \*\* I remember now. I also remember that Wonka specifically warned her NOT to chew that gum, it was not yet perfected and something dire would happen to her. I also remember Wonka shaking his head sadly and muttering something about how this always happened when they reached the blueberry stage. (Recall that the gum was supposed to change flavors as it was chewed.) Violet was not punished for chewing gum because Wonka made his own chewing gum. She was punished for not listening to Wonka’s warning, for not resisting temptation. (Insert allusion to Eve and the Forbidden Fruit HERE.) ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2001, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/58 "2001-05-30T21:54:08Z")
> [@](#): > > **(C K Dexter Haven)** BTW, has anyone heard the rumour that a remake is being considered with Nicholas Cage as Willie Wonka? I don’t know how I missed this thread before, but as long as it’s back, here’s some relevant information for you about the movie adaptation: [http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/details/willywonka.html](http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/details/willywonka.html) The suggestion of Nicolas Cage’s involvement goes back a while, but it’s basically just unsubstantiated rumor, exactly like the talk that Marilyn Manson was supposed to be involved. :eek: Anyway, for more information, check out the above. Basically, the movie’s in development, but as of now has not been actually slated for production. (And remember, kids, when you have questions about upcoming movies, [Corona](http://corona.bc.ca/films/mainFramed.html) is your friend. :)) ---
**Author:** ![Lucki\_Chaarms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lucki\_Chaarms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucki_Chaarms)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2001, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/59 "2001-05-31T04:13:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by winterhawk11 \* > \*\* > I don’t know if the boat ride quote is original or taken from some other source…I do know, though, that Marilyn Manson borrows it on his album “Portrait of an American Family.” > \*\* Manson has an obsession with Wonka. Ever seen the video to “Dope Hat”? It’s a direct lift of the boat scene, and even a part with flavored wallpaper. “The boys taste like boys, the girls taste like girls.” Creepy. When talk about the new movie was circulating, Manson desperately wanted to be Wonka, and even released information stating that he had been cast in order to try and secure the spot, but he was still sent away. Poor Marilyn :(. The video to dope hat is at the bottom of [this page.](http://www.marilynmanson.com/download/videos/index.html) It’s really quite cool in a disturbing way. Lucky Charms (Formerly MarxBoy) ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2001, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294/60 "2001-05-31T04:43:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cabbage \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > However- each kid/parent team gets disqualified because they disobey the rules. But so do Charly & gramps- what makes their “sin” forgivable? > > It was redemption. Charly & gramps sin was just as damnable as the others, but it wasn’t really those sins that Wonka was concerned with. Wonka was really concerned with honesty and loyalty to the chocolate factory–Charly redeemed himself by returning the Everlasting Gobstopper. “So shines a good deed in a weary world.” \*\* I’m still not clear on this, because it’s not as if any of the other kids had a chance to give back their gobstoppers, seeing as they were being sucked up pipes and dropped into bad egg chutes and getting rolled away by singing Oompa Loompas. Why does Wonka give Charlie that moment of contemplation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-question/51294.md?page=4)