# Wimbledon and sport fixing. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 23, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970 "2008-06-23T20:40:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/1 "2008-06-23T20:40:38Z")
> **[Wimbledon Gambling Scandal: Eight Matches Fixed, Dossier Claims](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wimbledon-gambling-scanda_n_108525)** > > Wimbledon Gambling Scandal: Eight Matches Fixed, Dossier Claims This story is a pro tennis continuation. There had been a story of Tennis match fixing not too long ago, Question is: Are pro sports able to be trusted as unfixed. Tennis and basketball are in question now. Can we trust the other sports? Does it matter to fans? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/2 "2008-06-23T21:52:52Z")
There’s been a lot of talk about matches being fixed in tennis over the last year, ever since a bizarre - but still unexplained - pattern of bets emerged in a match Nikolay Davydenko lost. A couple of players have talked about being offered money to lose on purpose, and Andy Murray said ‘everybody knows it happens.’ There haven’t been a lot of details about anything, and even in the Davydenko match, nobody’s been charged with any crime. People are right to be wary about some situations involving a lot of money. With both money and drugs, there’s probably an underbelly to pro sports in general that many of us don’t really want to know about. Then again, some people let their suspicions run away with them, or least run way ahead of the facts. I think that’s been the case with you in the Tim Donaghy threads, **gonzomax**. At this point I still think it’s more likely that there was no fixing in the Davydenko match - I think information was leaked that he was injured. But we’ll see what other details turn up, if any. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/3 "2008-06-24T01:23:12Z")
Sorry but you are wrong. My question was that did others wonder about sports being fixed. ? Just that. The Donaghy thread is in court for some reason. Could it be gambling stuck its smelly finger into the pie. Not my imagination. Two sports under fire. College bball has lot of incidents of fixing. Baseball has drugs, corked bats, grease balls and spitters. But as far as I know no fixing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/4 "2008-06-24T11:36:43Z")
There’s no game fixing in the Donaghy scandal either. It’s point shaving, if that term also covers inflating the score. I’ve never seen a sporting event and wondered if it was fixed. Do I wonder if that stuff goes on? Yes, just like I said I wonder if performance enhancing drugs are much more widely used than we hope. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/5 "2008-06-24T16:03:46Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] There’s no game fixing in the Donaghy scandal either. It’s point shaving, if that term also covers inflating the score. I’ve never seen a sporting event and wondered if it was fixed. Do I wonder if that stuff goes on? Yes, just like I said I wonder if performance enhancing drugs are much more widely used than we hope. [/QUOTE] Actually there is game fixing involved. Donaghy says games were set up to make playoffs go longer and for the teams that make the most money for the league ,to win. I will wait for the court case before I say it does not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/6 "2008-06-24T16:11:29Z")
Yes, Donaghy has made accusations. It’s not what he’s been charged with. Trust for NBA refs was already incredibly low, which is the reason some people are taking Donaghy’s remarks seriously even though there has been no evidence produced and I think it’s clear he’s just trying to save his ass. Ultimately I think fans are going to swallow their doubts about the league (and in this case, that’s what they should do) because they want to be entertained. What’s going on in tennis, if anything, is less clear, and since the individual players have more powerful and there aren’t as many big institutions like teams and owners, there are more ways for fixing and other manipulations to get in. But I do think fans trust what they’re seeing. For the most part, I think fans grumble about fixes when their team loses on a tough call or in a badly-reffed game - but they keep watching anyway. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/7 "2008-06-24T16:35:15Z")
What evidence can there be. Wimbledon is in the news for clear gambling anomalies. A person could see that something was wrong. Does that reach your level of proof. Donaghy is a long time ref who says he was involved in fixing games. Why does that not satisfy you. ? It makes me wonder. I have seen a lot of games that left me feeling something was wrong. That is not proof. If you want a case you try to get someone involved testify. You have that and say it is not good enough. What works for you. Our judicial system works on offering deals to people involved. This time it is not good enough ? I am open minded. I do not say it was rampant. I am waiting for more. But I would not be shocked at all. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/8 "2008-06-24T16:57:52Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] What evidence can there be. [/quote] An actual instance of somebody throwing a match would be a good start. > [@](#): > > Wimbledon is in the news for clear gambling anomalies. A person could see that something was wrong. Does that reach your level of proof. Do you understand that “gambling anomalies” can indicate issues other than match fixing? Look at the article you linked to: > [@](#): > > This will include banning anyone apart from coaches from dressing rooms to prevent potential fixers having access to the sportsmen and women and to stop insider information such as details of injuries leaking out. I also note that scary references to the Russian mafia appear in the lede of the story and then disappear. I just discussed an instance where I think gambling irregularities were connected to leaked information and not players losing on purpose. Tim Donaghy also talked about instances where _inside information_ was passed along, which allowed gamblers to get the results they wanted without paying somebody to screw up or take a dive. I don’t bet on sports, but if I was trying to make a lot of money this way, I think cultivating a source who could stay anonymous would be a lot safer than paying an individual to take a dive or lose on purpose. Gambling based on information that is supposed to be confidential is wrong and illegal, but doesn’t mean the players are corrupt and that the outcome of the games shouldn’t be trusted. Gambling is a huge industry, but I think the major sports are relatively safe precisely because they’re major. Smaller leagues and tournaments are probably more vulnerable. > [@](#): > > Donaghy is a long time ref who says he was involved in fixing games. Why does that not satisfy you. ? Because I think he’s full of shit, for reasons I’ve discussed at length in other threads. > [@](#): > > I have seen a lot of games that left me feeling something was wrong. That is not proof. Agreed. > [@](#): > > If you want a case you try to get someone involved testify. You have that and say it is not good enough. What works for you. Testimony and evidence aren’t the same thing. > [@](#): > > Our judicial system works on offering deals to people involved. This time it is not good enough ? I’ve got nothing against offering deals to people who plead guilty. But it would be stupid to assume that someone is telling the truth just because they cop a plea. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/9 "2008-06-24T18:15:04Z")
When you use the verb ‘fixed’, are you referring to officials of the sport in question acting nefariously, or the players, or both? It’s a distinction to be made, as I think you will easily find many instances of players gambling on their sports. Just off the top of my head I can think of recent instances in all the major UK sports - football (the dodgy goalkeeper saga of the 90s with Segers and Grobbelar), rugby (Sean Long and other St Helens players) and cricket\* (Hanse Cronje). Officials fixing the game is a much more interesting question, as it doesn’t happen as often. I guess no one would be surprised to hear about dodgy goings on in the boxing game, but sports like football? Very doubtful. There is so much money wrapped up in the English Premiership that I am sure there are people who would like to fix it up. Referees are under such scrutiny here that it would be extremely difficult to get away with. Not to mention that if a UK referee was exposed as being bent, I would genuinely fear for his safety. The ramifications would be profound, the country would grind to a halt. \*There was a famous story in an England versus Australia test match of England getting bent over and abused in the first four days, prompting Rodney Marsh (Aussie player) to place a bet on England winning the match at 500-1. Ian Botham then played the game of his, or anyone elses, life and swung it round for England on the last day. THis anecdote is usually recounted as a mischevious tale, rather than with any match-fixing overtones. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/10 "2008-06-24T18:22:35Z")
I said in my last post that testimony and evidence aren’t the same thing, but as far as I know Donaghy has never actually testified about the alleged league-mandated fixing. He’s filed papers about it and I guess told the government about it. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/11 "2008-06-24T19:13:17Z")
That means nothing to you? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/12 "2008-06-24T19:29:33Z")
I don’t think he’s telling the truth. What else is there to say about it? I think it’s very likely (and in character) that he is lying in the hopes of avoiding a longer jail sentence or damages to the NBA, and unlikely that he’s really aware of a longstanding plot by the league to fix multiple playoff series. Back to tennis for a moment, Davydenko crashed out of Wimbledon again today. He sucks on grass and didn’t even bother to play a grass-court tuneup. He said again that he never threw a match, and doesn’t believe there is any match-fixing going on in the sport. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/13 "2008-06-24T20:40:24Z")
[http://www.cincinnatisports.com/forums/misc-sports/5590-tennis-fixing-scandal.html](http://www.cincinnatisports.com/forums/misc-sports/5590-tennis-fixing-scandal.html) This is the kind of thing he has to argue away. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/14 "2008-06-24T21:15:18Z")
[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/25/sports/othersports/25betfair.html?\_r=1&em&ex=1211860800&en=57531e58f1ae82d1&ei=5087 &oref=slogin](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/25/sports/othersports/25betfair.html?_r=1&em&ex=1211860800&en=57531e58f1ae82d1&ei=5087%0A&oref=slogin) It is ironic that a on line betting site. Betfair. alerted several sports that they had a potential fixing problem. The discovered strange betting patterns without a good explanation. They include horse racing, soccer and tennis as sports with problems. The article does not list the others but says it may be in 15 sports. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/15 "2008-06-24T22:11:35Z")
If you look at that first link, you’ll see it’s about Davydenko, the same player we were already discussing. Something fishy absolutely happened. Almost a year later, though, I still don’t see evidence that favors a fix over what I suggested. And as McEnroe says at the end of your second link, it’d be insane for the nubmer four player in the world to throw a match that way. It’s hard to picture him making more money for throwing the match than he would for winning the tournament, never mind the millions he’s made in his career and would no longer be able to make if he was suspended for throwing a match. [QUOTE=gonzomax] It is ironic that a on line betting site. Betfair. alerted several sports that they had a potential fixing problem. [/quote] That’s not ironic at all, actually. Bookies and gambling sites are the ones who get taken advantage of in a fix. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/16 "2008-06-25T00:49:23Z")
Yet it is gamblers who bribe the players into a fix. It remains ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/17 "2008-06-25T02:29:13Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Yet it is gamblers who bribe the players into a fix. It remains ironic. [/QUOTE] And it is the bookies who stand to lose the most when matches are fixed. I’ve missed the irony. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/18 "2008-06-25T04:24:18Z")
How could you. The very industry that is a huge gambling enterprise keeps such accurate statistics that it can recognize a fix that other gamblers have set up. Gamblers catching ,gamblers. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/19 "2008-06-25T11:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] How could you. The very industry that is a huge gambling enterprise keeps such accurate statistics that it can recognize a fix that other gamblers have set up. Gamblers catching ,gamblers. [/QUOTE] It’s the bookies that keep those stats, not the gamblers themselves. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2008, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970/20 "2008-06-25T14:29:06Z")
So, it is a gambling enterprise that keeps good enough stats that it can ferret out fixes. A gambling business, not a congressional or police organization. Heavily and deeply ironic would you not agree.? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimbledon-and-sport-fixing/453970.md?page=2)