# Wimpy National Anthem **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751 "2004-08-20T18:11:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/21 "2004-08-21T00:05:49Z")
Oh, quit your bitching. _wanders away sullenly humming Canada’s national dirge_ ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/22 "2004-08-21T01:10:00Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Oh, quit your bitching. > … Yes - you whiny lot - think yourselves lucky that you _have_ a national anthem.\*\*\*\*\* All I get is a song about God (don’t care about), queen (don’t care about) and the only mention of any nation is just to implore God to help crush rebellkious Scots. Not very nice. Not good at all. Fussy lot! 🙂 \*\*\*\*\*Even if it _is_ “gibberish ssprinkled with question marks” Celyn running away fast now. Fast Fast Fast ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/23 "2004-08-21T03:38:04Z")
I’d prefer the version they have at the Olympics to the type you so often hear at baseball games, where some third-rate hack of a singer uses the national tune as an excuse to show off his or her vocal range and ability to hold a single note for three and a half minutes. The anthem gets absolutely mutilated by some of these American Idol wannabes. The funny thing is that, of all the countries i’ve lived in, Americans play their anthem more often than anyone else, but actually sing it less. It’s always left to a “professional,” with none of the democratic participation that should be the hallmark of a national tune. You haven’t heard a national anthem sung until you’ve been part of a full house at Twickenham in Endland (i’m sure it’s much the same at Wembley). “God Save the Queen” sucks as much as any other anthem, but there’s something inspiring about hearing it belted out by 70,000+ people. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/24 "2004-08-21T03:39:40Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > You haven’t heard a national anthem sung until you’ve been part of a full house at Twickenham in **Endland** Um, that would be **England**. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/25 "2004-08-21T03:45:24Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Oh, quit your bitching. > > _wanders away sullenly humming Canada’s national dirge_ Hey, it’s the easiest set of lyrics in the world to learn. Just remember the combinations “for thee” “on guard” “O Canada” and “we stand” and sing them in some combination – you’ve got 75-80% of the song there, and you just go “mwa mwa” sotto voce on the parts you don’t know yet! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/26 "2004-08-21T05:30:08Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > …and you just go “mwa mwa” sotto voce on the parts you don’t know yet! 😃 Thanks to **Polycarp** I’m now picturing Charlie Brown’s teacher singing the national anthem at a Leafs game. ---
**Author:** ![Tikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5daacb/32.png) [@Tikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tikki)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/27 "2004-08-21T05:53:31Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > My supposition was that at a time when many international opinions are anti U.S. that we’d substituted a kindler, gentler version rather than a stirring, chest beating rendition. Just a WAG. Is that why ‘the rockets’ red glare and bombs bursting in air’ part is so faint as to be barely heard? Still, this version is likeable enough, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/28 "2004-08-21T15:30:51Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Americans play their anthem more often than anyone else, but actually sing it less. It’s always left to a “professional,” If we had a singable anthem, we just might sing it more often. Too much range, too hard for your average Joe Sixpack to sing without busting eardrums. Let’s recall how many professional singers mutilate the damn thing in front of millions. We happily sing “Take me out to the Ballgame” and would probably sing “America the Beautiful” if given the chance. Pick a song that nobody can sing right for your national anthem, just brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/29 "2004-08-21T15:58:27Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > If we had a singable anthem, we just might sing it more often. Too much range, too hard for your average Joe Sixpack to sing without busting eardrums. Let’s recall how many professional singers mutilate the damn thing in front of millions. > > We happily sing “Take me out to the Ballgame” and would probably sing “America the Beautiful” if given the chance. > > Pick a song that nobody can sing right for your national anthem, just brilliant. Try singing “God defend New Zealand” and then again in Maori! Grumble grumble. NZ doesn’t need you to defend us God. Why “guard Pacifics triple star” when there are 4 frigging stars on the flag. Stupid poopyhead anthem ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/30 "2004-08-21T17:15:36Z")
At the risk of turning this into something positive (completely contradictory to Pit etiquette), let me suggest an IMHO-style listing of what national anthems (or at least their music) other than your own which you **like**. I very much like the music to “Deutschland Uber Alles” – which is, I believe, also the Austrian national anthem, and the old Czarist anthem (which you may recognize as the hymn “God, the Omnipotent King, Who Ordainest” and the theme that is not the Marseillaise in the 1812 overture). I’m not sure if “Finlandia” is the Suomi national anthem, but it’s also something that I like. ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/31 "2004-08-21T17:56:24Z")
> [@laigle](#): > > It’s high time we got a new one. Since we’re the outcast sons of the British Empire, I vote for something by the Sex Pistols. Sure would make it a lot more fun when some stodgy old rich white president is being greeted at an official ceremony. Um, hows about their “God Save The Queen”? Catchy! ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/32 "2004-08-21T17:58:24Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > If we had a singable anthem, we just might sing it more often. Too much range, too hard for your average Joe Sixpack to sing without busting eardrums. Let’s recall how many professional singers mutilate the damn thing in front of millions. > > We happily sing “Take me out to the Ballgame” and would probably sing “America the Beautiful” if given the chance. > > Pick a song that nobody can sing right for your national anthem, just brilliant. Agreed. And the Canadians aren’t much better off - “The Star Spangled Banner” wanders all over most of two octaves, while “O Canada” has some tricky intervals that the average untrained voice isn’t going to hit. I have this memory from when I was a little kid with my parents at some public event where both anthems were sung, with my mother commenting on how the crowd mutilated both of them. (TSSB has a melody taken from an 18th century drinking song, “To Anacreon in Heaven”. Presumably, if you’re sloshed enough you don’t give a crap how badly you sing it.) The UK probably has the right idea in this regard - anybody that can carry a tune at all can manage “God save the {monarch of appropriate gender}”. In most keys, even. Witness little kids on our side of the pond shrilly piping their way through it as “My country 'tis of thee”. OTOH, most national anthems are either extremely dumb or jingoistic when you stop to analyze them. I wouldn’t expect it any other way. A mature world view in a national anthem would be about as likely as a McDonald’s ad jingle providing a balanced critique of a Big Mac. That said, I’ll nominate the Marseillaise as the most stirring of the well known ones. Fat lot of good it’s done the French for the last century. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/33 "2004-08-21T18:02:49Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > Try singing “God defend New Zealand” and then again in Maori! Is the Maori version official? And, is it a translation from the English or does it say something different in Maori? The reason I ask is that I was about to ask whether any other country besides Canada had two versions of their national anthem in two different languages that aren’t simply direct translations of each other. Is that the case in New Zealand? ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/34 "2004-08-21T18:56:34Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s always left to a “professional,” with none of the democratic participation that should be the hallmark of a national tune. We participate. If you watch the crowd at a baseball game even the 5 and 6 year olds know how to do the official silent, mouth-along version of the anthem. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/35 "2004-08-21T18:59:21Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > I very much like the music to “Deutschland Uber Alles”. . . I’m not absolutely sure, but I think that music is by Beethoven. Anybody know? Seems to me I’ve also heard it as a hymn. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/36 "2004-08-21T19:27:39Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > I’m not absolutely sure, but I think that music is by Beethoven. Anybody know? Seems to me I’ve also heard it as a hymn. Originally it was Joseph Haydn’s “String quartet No. 77”, composed in 1797 and later used for the Austro-Hungarian anthem. In 1841 Hoffmann von Fallersleben wrote the German version of the lyrics, the “Lied der Deutschen”- “Song of the Germans” on the then British Heligoland. It’s important to note that Germany did not exist as a nation state at that time. The combination of the two became the national anthem in 1922 in the Weimar republic. After WW2 the first two stanzas were dropped. Actually singing the “Deutschland, Deutschland über alles…” line in public doesn’t really make a good impression. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/37 "2004-08-21T19:32:29Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > I’m not absolutely sure, but I think that music is by Beethoven. Anybody know? Seems to me I’ve also heard it as a hymn. It’s an adaptation of Joseph Haydn’s String Quartet in C major (the Kaiser-Quartet), Op. 76,3. As the anthem, it’s called “Das Lied der Deutschen”, or just “Das Deutschlandlied”. The hymn you’re thinking of might be “Praise, Oh, Praise, Our God and King”, by Henry Baker. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/38 "2004-08-21T21:09:14Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It’s an adaptation of Joseph Haydn’s String Quartet in C major (the Kaiser-Quartet), Op. 76,3. As the anthem, it’s called “Das Lied der Deutschen”, or just “Das Deutschlandlied”. The hymn you’re thinking of might be “Praise, Oh, Praise, Our God and King”, by Henry Baker. Thanks, **Liberal.** I got the wrong composer, even the wrong era. I’m slipping in my geezerhood. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/39 "2004-08-22T00:44:04Z")
[http://www.laurasmidiheaven.com/International.shtml](http://www.laurasmidiheaven.com/International.shtml) This link is to provide folks with the means to compare anthems, as per the suggestion of **Polycarp**. And to those who think we ought to change the US anthem, well, at least the music and lyrics are vigourous and stirring. Check out some of those from other countries, and by comparison our’s is a rock song. National anthems tend to be humdrum in words and music, but there are some notable exceptions, like the French or the Mexican anthems. Think our words are foolish/bloodthirsty/whatever? Try the anthem of the Netherlands, it’s about their prince proclaiming his loyalty to Spain!(in the first verse anyway). And the Japanese anthem is a hymn to the emperor, wishing him a long life and reign, until little rocks grow into big ones and get covered in moss! ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751/40 "2004-08-22T00:54:16Z")
Pardon the lateness of this opinion and the fact that I haven’t checked to see that it hasn’t already been expressed aaand the fact that it is a slight hijack but… I dislike _our_ national anthem immensely. What a drab boring arrogant pile of crap it is. We have a ton of ‘nationalistic’ songs that would be better. but we’re stuck with “God save the Queen”. Pathetic drivle. a) I don’t believe in God. b) I like the royal family, but ‘god save the queen’ is rather arrogant. c) it’s rather dull. doesn’t activate that spinal thrill that a good anthem should. d) gives Britain a bad impression. e) Hi Opal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wimpy-national-anthem/260751.md?page=3)