# Windows XP support ends Apr 8, 2014. No patches. What to do? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 10, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538 "2013-11-10T01:20:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/161 "2013-11-13T23:18:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > really? did they include a sticker on the computer that said it would be obsolete in 3 years? Why should a consumer know this? I very much doubt that systems were easily available with Windows XP in 2010. My guess is that the default would have been Windows 7 and the customer would have had to specifically request that Windows XP be provided. Presumably such a customer was aware that Windows XP was already obsolete. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/162 "2013-11-14T03:48:30Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If they don’t know what OS they’re using, they shouldn’t be buying a computer. It’s the equivalent of buying a car and not knowing what fuel it takes, it’s that basic. They shouldn’t? Because **Steophan** proclaimed it? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/163 "2013-11-14T05:32:17Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Wait, are people saying that the consumers who didn’t have a clue about the future roadmap of the thing they were buying _did_ have a clear expectation of updates for some period longer than was actually the case? That doesn’t make sense to me. Your mistake is believing that most purchasers of computers _think_ about updates when buying the machine. Computers are quite anomalous in this regard - nothing else we buy needs ‘updates’ in order to continue to function, just normal care and maintenance. And the computer biz semi-conceals this difference by making most of the updates automatic. Also, we’ve gotten to the point in the evolution of computers where people simply expect them to keep functioning longer. Used to be that a computer you got three years ago was starting to have trouble coping with an online universe where webpages were much more sophisticated (and required much more in the way of your computer’s resources) than they did a few years earlier. Unless you’re into online gaming, that’s slowed down considerably. Also, the XP operating system itself is less buggy than its predecessors, and the combination of PC and XP just keeps on going. Just like I now expect a new car to be reliable for 10-12 years, though I can remember when 3-4 years used to be the norm, I can’t see why I shouldn’t expect the same sort of increasing longevity from a computer. If that’s dependent on continued updates of the OS, then either the manufacturer should keep updating it, or hand it over to some nonprofit, open-source group that will. The notion that my computer will be obsolete for no better reason than Because We Have Decided Its Time Has Come is just bullshit. Nothing else works that way. Honda doesn’t decide that my 2000 Accord will no longer work, Amana doesn’t decide that their 1994-vintage refrigerator that I own will stop working, Sears doesn’t tell me that my Craftsman mower’s time has come after 10 years…you get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/164 "2013-11-14T05:44:13Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Because it was roughly 9 years old at that point? I mean, XP was the standard OS for computers when I was in _high school_. It’s not crazy to think that 3 years later it might be a little long in the tooth. again, it was still sold in 2010. 3 years is too short a time span to abandon a product that was sold to the public. If nothing else it was a cash cow they were milking for what amounts to pure profit. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/165 "2013-11-14T05:46:00Z")
What? I genuinely don’t understand the comparison you are making. Are you saying that Craftsman will service your lawnmower for free after 10 years? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/166 "2013-11-14T05:48:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > again, it was still sold in 2010. 3 years is too short a time span to abandon a product that was sold to the public. If nothing else it was a cash cow they were milking for what amounts to pure profit. Also, this discontinued candy I bought off ebay is stale and tasteless! The manufacturer owes me recompense! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/167 "2013-11-14T06:04:04Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Did these purchasers not get Windows XP? In what way were they sold faulty goods? No one told them to expect MS to support and patch their OS for years after the sell date. The fact that it needs a “patch” means it’s faulty. There is no wear and tear on software. It either works or it doesn’t. If they want to use the consumer as a beta tester for their software at least they could fix it for 10 years after the last sale. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/168 "2013-11-14T06:07:21Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > What? I genuinely don’t understand the comparison you are making. Are you saying that Craftsman will service your lawnmower for free after 10 years? Funny you should mention Craftsman products. I returned a 20 year old ratchet and got a replacement for free. As for parts support, they are known for stocking parts for many many years on their lawn mowers. Don’t know if all their products are as well served but their mowers are great to work on because of this. Ah, I see you were responding to RTFirefly. The statement still stands though. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/169 "2013-11-14T06:53:55Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But what I want to know is how XP PCs exist out there in the business/government world and should have been upgraded years ago due to hardware failures or the simple march of time. I have no doubt that a ton of those 500 million machines are still running XP because the money managers at these businesses just failed to buy new PCs because they didn’t _have_ to. They still don’t _have_ to, but now they can wail that it’s all Microsoft’s fault. Thanks for clarifying. I’m guessing that with 500 million XP machines running, there are all manner of good and bad reasons for keeping them. Some are running mission-critical legacy software, a lot are in foreign lands, some should have been upgraded years ago, others do just fine. My default assumption is that owners mostly know what they are doing, and that forcing a change from above is likely to lead to inefficiencies. > [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > You can certainly argue that it’s in Microsoft’s interest to keep supporting XP. The problem is: Microsoft doesn’t agree with you, and it’s their decision to make. A decision that they made over ten years ago, publicly, and have generally not wavered from very much. ## Sure it’s their decision. And it’s the decision of our elected representatives and courts whether they want to extend fire, police and intellectual property protection to Microsoft. Freedom! Along the same lines, MS owns a highly lucrative public utility, one that could be justifiably subject to regulation. I doubt whether that’s advisable, but threats of the same could focus minds. Back to the OP. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > …how should an XP machine be hardened? … > 0. First upgrade everything, run antiviral, antispyware, whatever. Note there have been a couple of Win Office security patches released this fall. > > 1. Acquire an [off line anti-viral](http://www.makeuseof.com/answers/antivirus-offline/). Recommendations? > 2. Tack on malwarebytes, which is complementary. Recommended spyware package? > 3. Disable [autorun in USB ports to prevent malware infection](http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-to-disable-usb-ports-to-prevent-malware-infection/). > 4. Backups, backups, backup. > 5. Take an image of the PC. I haven’t tried it, but consider this piece of software which does backups and imaging: [http://www.pcworld.com/article/2043692/introduction-to-backup.html](http://www.pcworld.com/article/2043692/introduction-to-backup.html) > 6. Try installing Comodo firewall, then disabling it if you can. Otherwise, just a keep a copy ready on the hard drive. > 7. Sandboxie. > 8. Uninstall Java. > 9. Full Adblocking. > 10. Disable Javascript in the browsers. > 11. And practice safe computing. Tentacle searches should be conducted on other machines. Though a lot of malware is apparently delivered via ads on mainstream websites. 1. Mentioned before, but take a full image of your machine, something you can roll back to. I opine that if you are an intermediate user with a mission-critical piece of legacy software, that the above should be fine. In fact, you could even stay connected to the internet if it is used occasionally. Let the firewall block internet access most of the time. Keep a backup desktop in the closet, ready to be slid in at a moment’s notice. With all the XP machines soon hitting Ebay, you should be able to buy them cheap. I am an intermediate user, not a power user. Most power users are unqualified to make such assessments: only security professionals should be doing that. In other words the value of my opinion is dubious. Repeat link: article on image and other sorts of backup: [http://www.pcworld.com/article/2043692/introduction-to-backup.html](http://www.pcworld.com/article/2043692/introduction-to-backup.html) ## The above is fiddly and time-intensive. So I guess casual users are going to have to learn Win7 or Bog help us Win8, whether they like it or not. Suck it up gramps! Ditto for umpteen million people who really don’t find computers especially fun. They just want to do their job. I’m re-evaluating my view of Linux. We might see used XP machines going for $50 or less next year. At those prices it makes sense to [del]buy them up, restore deleted files and sell credit card numbers to the Russians and secrets to the Chinese[/del] buy a couple and experiment with Linux if you have the space. Or if you don’t, ditto with a laptop (though they are more difficult to configure). So 2014 might be good for hobbyists, maybe [del]giant killer[/del] robot builders. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/170 "2013-11-14T08:03:31Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Your mistake is believing that most purchasers of computers _think_ about updates when buying the machine. I am in fact under no such mistaken belief. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/171 "2013-11-14T08:05:48Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The notion that my computer will be obsolete for no better reason than Because We Have Decided Its Time Has Come is just bullshit. Nothing else works that way. Honda doesn’t decide that my 2000 Accord will no longer work, Amana doesn’t decide that their 1994-vintage refrigerator that I own will stop working, Sears doesn’t tell me that my Craftsman mower’s time has come after 10 years…you get the idea. XP isn’t going to abruptly stop working. The manufacturer has decided to stop servicing your model. That happens in other markets besides computers. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/172 "2013-11-14T08:25:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The fact that it needs a “patch” means it’s faulty. No, it doesn’t. It means it needs updating. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/173 "2013-11-14T12:30:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The fact that it needs a “patch” means it’s faulty. There is no wear and tear on software. It either works or it doesn’t. If they want to use the consumer as a beta tester for their software at least they could fix it for 10 years after the last sale. Do you understand the real definitions of “patch,” “faulty,” and “beta tester” at all? Because from this paragraph, I’m guessing the answer is no. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/174 "2013-11-14T12:57:52Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Do you understand the real definitions of “patch,” “faulty,” and “beta tester” at all? Because from this paragraph, I’m guessing the answer is no. Yes I understand everything I wrote. Do you understand that software that needs to be fixed is faulty? They didn’t add new features, they fixed what didn’t work or was vulnerable in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/175 "2013-11-14T13:00:16Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > XP isn’t going to abruptly stop working. The manufacturer has decided to stop servicing your model. That happens in other markets besides computers. And 3 years from the last sale is too soon for something that many corporations rely on. Now they’re going to charge a yearly fee for what is the cost of the software in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/176 "2013-11-14T13:10:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And 3 years from the last sale is too soon for something that many corporations rely on. Now they’re going to charge a yearly fee for what is the cost of the software in the first place. I thought your argument was that naive _consumers_ bought them, unknowing that support life was limited. Corporations have absolutely no excuse for not seeing this coming a long way off, and making properly-planned decisions. Anyone responsible for deploying desktop computers in a corporate setting, and claiming ignorance of the EOL date for XP, is guilty of gross incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/177 "2013-11-14T13:51:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes I understand everything I wrote. Do you understand that software that needs to be fixed is faulty? They didn’t add new features, they fixed what didn’t work or was vulnerable in the first place. You clearly didn’t understand it, then. If someone invents a new kind of lockpick, it doesn’t mean all old locks are suddenly faulty. Same with software, except that, with software, you get years - in this case, well over a decade - of updates when new attacks are created. Another good example is IPv6, which will at some point (the sooner the better, really) become the default for internet addresses, and which is not supported by XP. That’s not a flaw in XP, as it was - and is - not expected to be necessary in the lifespan of that OS. But if you keep using it too long past its obsolescence you’ll simply not be able to access a lot of the web. So, you’re wrong on every count. We’re not talking about faulty software that needs fixing, we’re talking about the need for continual security updates and somewhat regular feature updates. And with enough feature updates, you have a new OS. You’re not wrong in saying that Microsoft should be providing these fixes, but you are wrong if you claim it has not done so for long enough. It’s done so for longer than it promised to, a promise that was made 11 years ago when the software launched. This is not something new or unusual, or wrong - the only surprising thing is that they chose to support it for longer. Windows 7 came out over 4 years ago, so no-one’s been taken by surprise by the existence of a new OS. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/178 "2013-11-14T14:09:18Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Windows 7 came out over 4 years ago, so no-one’s been taken by surprise by the existence of a new OS. Yup - in our medium-sized corporate setting, we were very late in migrating from Win2K to XP - by the time we finished, Windows 7 had been available for a while - and work began almost straight away on migration to Windows 7. Even before Win7 came out, we knew the new deadline we were facing for XP, and knew we were going to skip Vista. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/179 "2013-11-14T16:02:56Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The notion that my computer will be obsolete for no better reason than Because We Have Decided Its Time Has Come is just bullshit. Nothing else works that way. Honda doesn’t decide that my 2000 Accord will no longer work, Amana doesn’t decide that their 1994-vintage refrigerator that I own will stop working, Sears doesn’t tell me that my Craftsman mower’s time has come after 10 years…you get the idea. No one is trying to hack your Accord. No one is trying to hack your lawnmower. No one is trying to hack your refrigerator. If it required constant vigilance and teams of engineers rolling out weekly updates to keep then lawnmower in your garage running, then Craftsman would have a different support policy. TANSTAAFL. Microsoft isn’t _breaking_ Windows XP. They’re just not going to fix it when future problems come to light. There will, I’m sure, be Windows XP machines running for many years to come. As for your computer hardware, it will keep working fine. Go install another OS on it. If you bought it in 2010, I’m sure you can install Linux and a run XP in a virtual machine to keep using whatever XP-only software you need. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2013, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538/180 "2013-11-14T23:15:42Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > XP isn’t going to abruptly stop working. The manufacturer has decided to stop servicing your model. That happens in other markets besides computers. Can’t say I’ve ever experienced this in a meaningful\* sense with a product that I’d bought in the previous decade or so. Can you give a couple of for-instances? \*‘Meaningful’ means that it has to make a real difference. If Sears chose to no longer service my Kenmore washing machine, it wouldn’t make much difference as long as I could get similar service from an independent repairman. And the absence of the availability of such service wouldn’t make my washing machine any more likely to have problems; it’s just that I’d have to get someone else besides a Sears mechanic to fix it when it did. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windows-xp-support-ends-apr-8-2014-no-patches-what-to-do/673538.md?page=10)