# Winds of Change: Flag Department **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 10, 2016, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329 "2016-12-10T05:53:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329/21 "2016-12-11T16:17:23Z")
I’m wondering how many Pride flags the guy has actually sold. > [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Freedom generally means freedom to do what _one_ wishes, unconstrained by tyranny. And that includes owning people… No. Freedom, as a moral and political concept, includes granting to others the freedom one claims for oneself. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329/22 "2016-12-12T03:00:07Z")
“Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves, and, under a just God, cannot long retain it.” - Abraham Lincoln, letter to H.L. Pierce, April 6, 1859 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329/23 "2016-12-12T20:15:39Z")
Another Lincoln quote: “As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is not democracy.” Had that on my bedroom wall growing up. ---
**Author:** ![gregorio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@gregorio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gregorio)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329/24 "2016-12-12T21:16:15Z")
Don’t underestimate the cultural influence of them Duke boys. > **[The Dukes of Hazzard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dukes_of_Hazzard)** > > The Dukes of Hazzard is an American action comedy TV series that was aired on CBS from January 26, 1979 to February 8, 1985. The show aired for 147 episodes spanning seven seasons. It was consistently among the top-rated television series in the late 1970s (at one point, ranking second only to Dallas, which immediately followed the show on CBS's Friday night schedule). The show is about two young male cousins, Bo and Luke Duke, who live in rural Georgia and are on probation for moonshine-runnin... ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329/25 "2016-12-12T22:13:15Z")
Lincoln’s pious views notwithstanding, it is the Confederate theorists’ views that are under examination ( and of course, had they won, their views would have become the orthodoxy — and Lincoln Lassalle to their Marxism, or Trotsky to their Stalinism ). However I should caution against instant facile identification of pro-slavery to racism: apart from those gloomy gus’es who went around talking ponderously about ‘ **The Curse of Ham** ’, many of these people were as willing to enslave their own poor as any modern libertarian or Soviet/Nazi. Much is made of Jefferson mating with his slaves, and keeping the children enslaved, but Sally was nearly as white as he was. [EDIT: Of course he was also one of the fathers of scientific racialist theory, but that was _separate_ from his being a slave-owner: he had a remarkable gift for compartmentalization.] Whilst George Fitzhugh, the outlier here, owing much to Carlyle’s riveting beliefs in the happiness of work, and enforced work, insisted that 19 out of 20 people of all races should be enslaved for their own good. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329/26 "2016-12-13T01:30:37Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I’m wondering how many Pride flags the guy has actually sold. That’s a fair question. I’m frankly surprised that he makes any money, since his location is right at the junction of two arteries in drive-through industrial/commercial territory (Winnipeg and Sask Drive, **74westy** - don’t know if you’ve seen him?) Wouldn’t have thought there would be many people stopping there. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329/27 "2016-12-13T02:32:12Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That’s a fair question. I’m frankly surprised that he makes any money, since his location is right at the junction of two arteries in drive-through industrial/commercial territory (Winnipeg and Sask Drive, **74westy** - don’t know if you’ve seen him?) > > Wouldn’t have thought there would be many people stopping there. Used to take my car to Rudy’s but I’m not in that part of town often lately. I’ve seen others on Vic east by the Pump and Albert and 5th or 6th or so. I’m always driving by and thinking who the hell is flying that big rebel flag and realizing he’s just selling a bunch of stuff. I’m sure he sells lots of pride flags too. Lots of rednecks here but lots of us are fabulous too. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329/28 "2016-12-13T04:22:33Z")
“I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor or degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we began by declaring that ‘all men are created equal.’ We now practically read it ‘all men are created equal, except negroes.’ When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read ‘all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.’ When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy [sic].” - Abraham Lincoln, letter to Joshua Speed, August 24, 1855 ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329/29 "2016-12-13T19:02:50Z")
Makes sense to me. The Confederate Flag has had a lot of bad publicity lately. I’m sure many in Canada did (and do) use it just to mean “rebel.” But now people know the other meaning, and this guy, at least, doesn’t want to be associated with it. So he picked pretty much the opposite flag to replace it. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329/30 "2016-12-14T10:10:54Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > **Evan** , it seems to me that you may be overthinking this. > > The Canadians I’ve known who constitute a market for Confederate battle flag memorabilia (flags, belt buckles, license plates, etc.) don’t know very much about the CSA or the US Civil War. Remember, Canadian high schools typically don’t teach US history, so they’d have a hard time identifying the issues behind the conflict, never mind reasons such as you are discussing. > > So why do they want this stuff? Simple. As one friend who bought a Confederate flag to put in the back window of his pickup truck said, “I’m a rebel.” He didn’t mean he sympathized with the CSA or was pro-slavery or had some Scottish notion of “Freedom!” He just saw himself as a non-conformist, and if you had asked him what he was rebelling against, he’d likely answer similarly to James Dean: “Whaddaya got?” Marlon Brando said, “Whaddaya got” in the movie “The Wild One.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winds-of-change-flag-department/774329.md?page=1)