# Windsor Knot or Windsor Not **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501 "2013-01-17T13:07:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/41 "2013-01-17T20:01:56Z")
Half-Windsor all the way. Specially when tie-fashion goes wide, I call a full Windsor, [**The Goiter**](http://onemansstyle.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/special02.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/42 "2013-01-17T20:21:22Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > It’s a shame that this problem couldn’t be remedied by something like buying different clothes for work/play and then turning off the fucking phone. Actually, if you know my situation you’d be screaming that my life is exactly as you portrayed the the modern workforce. 😉 Our office dress code is nonexistent with the only rule being “Don’t come to work stinky” And the company pays my cell phone bill. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/43 "2013-01-17T20:39:59Z")
Not sure what your point is, but hey, keep fucking that chicken. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/44 "2013-01-17T20:59:48Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The four-in-hand is clearly the lowliest of the tie knots. It isn’t even debatable. Seriously, it’s a kiddie knot. A windsor is way too big a knot, the half windsor is the perfect size for a knot. Personally, I prefer the self releasing half windsor. Knots that don’t release are for chumps. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/45 "2013-01-17T21:33:13Z")
I find it funny that such a small thing as what tie knot you use is considered such a big deal. To me, it seems more like something particularly fashionable people would care about. I personally can’t imagine even noticing what knot was used. I’ve never understood why no one has every come up with a knot that actually lets you adjust the tie to the right length after the tie is tied. nor why no one has come up with a better simulation than the clip-on. Seems you could have a tie that appears to go all the way around your neck, but still essentially clips on. They’d be a lot better than even the half Windsor, which still takes up too much tie, leaving you without enough tail to tack/tuck into the slit on the back. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/46 "2013-01-17T21:34:04Z")
Yeah, the four in hand is for your first recital. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/47 "2013-01-17T21:49:01Z")
Granted, he was writing more than 30 years ago, but Paul Fussell offers some interesting observations on the class inferences to be drawn from how you knot your tie. Moreover, the book in question, _Class_, is rather prejudiced towards usages in the American northeast. Still, the underlying principle seems valid, to wit: the full Windsor is the favorite of high school boys everywhere, as he puts it. In grown men it betrays the anxiety typical of the middle class, as of one fearful of being called down by the HR department for a dress code violation. The middle class American , so Fussell, imagines wrongly that the upper classes are characterized by increasing fastidiousness and neatness of dress, the higher we look up the class ladder. Actually the most neatly dressed member of an upper class household is likely to be a servant. By contrast, the half-Windsor knot is a typical expression of a more relaxed attitude which is characteristic of the upper classes. Certainly a suit will be worn when called for, and a well fitted one at that, but the tie knot will not be so fastidiously symmetrical or so tightly cinched. The HW knot is perfect for this because it’s asymmetrical by its very nature. To state Fussell’s argument more concisely: you inflict “class damage” on yourself by being fastidiously clean when you should be filthy, or excessively neat when you should be more relaxed in your appearance. I don’t necessarily agree with the author on all that he says, but it’s nevertheless a fascinating read. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/48 "2013-01-17T21:50:18Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Windsor, schmindsor. I call it the Battenberg-Sachsen-Coburg knot. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/49 "2013-01-17T22:00:19Z")
My dad flies into town every morning to tie my tie for me. I’ll have to ask him what knot he uses. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/50 "2013-01-17T23:23:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I find it funny that such a small thing as what tie knot you use is considered such a big deal. Really? This is the place where if you forget a comma or apostrophe assholes jump your shit. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/51 "2013-01-17T23:47:28Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Really? This is the place where if you forget a comma or apostrophe assholes jump your shit. It’s 2 spaces after punctuation that ends the sentence, jerkbag, not 1. FFS learn to format properly or GTFO. WHAT ARE THEY TEACHING YOU KIDS THESE DAYS??!??!! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/52 "2013-01-17T23:58:19Z")
From the number of misspellings in this thread, evidently “they” aren’t teaching spelling these days! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/53 "2013-01-18T00:58:46Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > It’s a shame that this problem couldn’t be remedied by something like buying different clothes for work/play and then turning off the fucking phone. In many jobs just turning off the phone isn’t an option. Having to be “on call” is undoubtedly part of many more jobs and professions than it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/54 "2013-01-18T02:00:11Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Yeah, the four in hand is for your first recital. Swear, I read that 4 times before I didn’t see ‘rectal’. > [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Really? This is the place where if you forget a comma or apostrophe assholes jump your shit. If they do, better wear a four-in-hand. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/55 "2013-01-18T02:08:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hi. My name is Alessan, I’m a 38-year-old middle-class urban college graduate, and I have no fucking idea how to tie a tie. What am I, a lawyer or something? Obviously, and I’d say this even if I didn’t know it, you are Israeli. You guys wouldn’t wear a tie to a white-tie dinner. > [@stpauler](#): > > Unless it’s an [eldredge knot](http://agreeordie.com/blog/musings/545-how-to-tie-a-necktie-eldredge-knot), who cares? Bookmarked! I have a long torso but I have a tie that is long, thin, and light enough to make that work. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/56 "2013-01-18T02:10:02Z")
I use a half-Windsor when the ties isn’t long enough for the Windsor. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/57 "2013-01-18T03:10:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > It’s 2 spaces after punctuation that ends the sentence, jerkbag, not 1. FFS learn to format properly or GTFO. WHAT ARE THEY TEACHING YOU KIDS THESE DAYS??!??!! Well to be pedantic two spaces after a period was introduced for typewriters due to each letter occupying the same space and is horrible to typesetters to this day. Courier font still requires double spacing but otherwise…😛 ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/58 "2013-01-18T08:25:47Z")
A full Darwin is when a person does something so stupid it kills him. A half-Darwin is when it merely injures him. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/59 "2013-01-18T13:28:10Z")
FYI if you use a full Windsor Knot, everybody is laughing at you behind your back. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/60 "2013-01-18T14:58:51Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Not sure what your point is, but hey, keep fucking that chicken. I guess my first post came off as sarcastic. It wasn’t. So my point was that it WOULD be nice to be able to just turn the phone off and not deal with work issues at all odd times. As for the Chicken - Oh sure! Bring up the chicken again and just re-open that old heartache! You know damn good and well the chicken left me for an egg. And I hear that they are no longer “the perfect couple”; something about never achieving a simultaneous O. One of them always comes first but no clue as to which one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501.md?page=4)