# Windsor Knot or Windsor Not **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501 "2013-01-17T13:07:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/81 "2013-01-22T03:59:42Z")
Bow ties are only cool if they’re the battery-powered variety that spin around. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/82 "2013-01-22T05:52:23Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > There are several models of “fake ties” that snap at the back of the collar rather than clip on the front. They look better than the clip-ons, but not nearly as good as a real tie. > > Pratt wearer here. There are even “zipper” ties, which basically have a zipper that tightens a loop around the wearer’s neck. The knot is never messed with. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/83 "2013-01-22T11:45:02Z")
Wow. The next time a woman here says that she doesn’t dress for men, and a whole bunch of men dismiss the possibility, I’m going to link to this thread and remind y’all that no woman in the history of ever has noticed or given a shit about your knot. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/84 "2013-01-22T12:56:09Z")
I’m using at least four different types of tie knots, depending on the thickness of the tie and the spread of the collar. The full Windsor is great for thin-ish ties in wide collars. I prefer the self-releasing variation. Half Windsor and Pratt/Shelby goes with normal thickness ties in medium narrow collars. With a little bit of care, the self-releasing half Windsor can look very symmetrical. The four-in-hand is nice with thick wool ties. With most silk ties, though, it’s just too narrow and asymmetrical, and IMO you’ll look like a schoolboy. It can work for a narrow black tie, combined with a white shirt and a fedora, though 🆒 Bow ties are for black tie occasions or for that eccentric professor look. On my side of the pond, a bolo tie is only suitable if you’re also wearing cowboy boots and listen to C&W music daily. And never for a formal occasion. I’d like to wear a tie more often than I do, but if I start wearing one on a regular basis at work, they’re probably going to think I’m even more weird than I am. Whenever I wear something more formal than jeans and a T-shirt on a normal workday, I’m overdressed… ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/85 "2013-01-22T16:24:13Z")
Had a mess trying to make sense of that link till I found a piece of string to practice. Turns out I use a co-half windsor, i.e. the self-releasing windsor. It is a symmetrical tie, it is easy to undo, and uses a lot less tie than a Full Windsor. The four-in-hand is the one that looks lopsided. Should add that I rarely wear a tie. My job I often wear jeans and a button shirt. But I did learn back when I was supposed to wear a tie every day. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/86 "2013-01-22T17:07:37Z")
I stopped wearing ties 15 years ago, and have no regrets so far. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/87 "2013-01-22T17:20:29Z")
I am surprised so many people are calling the half Windsor an asymmetric knot. If your half Windsor is asymmetric, you are doing it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/88 "2013-01-22T22:27:40Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Unless it’s an [eldredge knot](http://agreeordie.com/blog/musings/545-how-to-tie-a-necktie-eldredge-knot), who cares? Personally I’m a big fan of the Eldritch knot. Never have been able to get a clear photo of it for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/89 "2013-01-22T23:29:20Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I stopped wearing ties 15 years ago, and have no regrets so far. Ah, but what tie knot is it that you don’t use? If it’s a half windsor that you’re not tying, you should be ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/90 "2013-01-23T01:05:06Z")
> [@flight](#): > > I am surprised so many people are calling the half Windsor an asymmetric knot. If your half Windsor is asymmetric, you are doing it wrong. Really up to the wearer – a matter of tightening the knot to where you want it. So you can actually get either result. Also, when the tie fabric allows, I always recommend a dimple for added panache. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/91 "2013-01-23T01:51:56Z")
The Windsor knot is by far the most elegant and superior method of tying a tie, unless the wearer falls into that small minority of tie wearers whose neck is smaller in circumference than a fire hydrant, or whose head may be smaller than a modestly sized watermelon. In either or both of these unlikely events, a more subdued knot may be appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/92 "2013-01-23T02:11:41Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > The Windsor knot is by far the most elegant and superior method of tying a tie, unless the wearer falls into that small minority of tie wearers whose neck is smaller in circumference than a fire hydrant, or whose head may be smaller than a modestly sized watermelon. In either or both of these unlikely events, a more subdued knot may be appropriate. Then again, it can be offset by combining it with other [fashion mistakes](http://glennobrien.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Donald-Trump-Bad-Hair-Photo-1.jpg). I mean, do you really notice the Windsor in that pic? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/93 "2013-01-23T03:21:35Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Then again, it can be offset by combining it with other [fashion mistakes](http://glennobrien.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Donald-Trump-Bad-Hair-Photo-1.jpg). I mean, do you really notice the Windsor in that pic? Oh, certainly. The Windsor is blowing his Hairsor all over the Fucksor. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/94 "2013-01-23T04:44:36Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Oh, certainly. The Windsor is blowing his Hairsor all over the Fucksor. win-sor ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/95 "2013-01-23T10:01:55Z")
Just thought I ought to add that Jon Stewart [doesn’t like bowties](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQFB5YpDZE). ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/96 "2013-01-23T17:11:41Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > FYI if you use a full Windsor Knot, everybody is laughing at you behind your back. This. And this: There is the Windsor and the _double_ Windsor. The double Windsor is way too big and looks stupid. Reserved for the clueless and those who wear polyester. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/97 "2013-01-23T17:44:41Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > This. > > And this: There is the Windsor and the _double_ Windsor. The double Windsor is way too big and looks stupid. Reserved for the clueless and those who wear polyester. Apparently not. [ [QUOTE=Thomas Fink (Author of The 85 Ways to Tie a Tie)] Keep in mind that the half-Windsor is sometimes a victim of the erroneous naming convention used to describe both it and the Windsor, calling them the Windsor and double-Windsor. There is no such thing as a double Windsor… [/quote] ](http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~tmf20/tieknots.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/98 "2013-01-23T18:09:18Z")
_“…There is no such thing as a double Windsor…”_ [There are plenty of sites claiming both.](http://www.ehow.com/how_15994_tie-double-windsor.html) [“James Bond never trusted a man who boasted a Windsor Knot; “It was tied with a Windsor knot. Bond mistrusted anyone who tied his tie with a Windsor knot. It showed too much vanity. It was often the mark of a cad.” -From Russia With Love”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor_knot) ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/99 "2013-01-23T18:09:27Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#): > > The double Windsor is way too big and looks stupid. Reserved for the clueless and those who wear polyester. Except for the fact - which already has been mentioned - that there is no such thing as a “double” Windsor, it all depends on the collar spread and the thickness & width of the tie. You’ll look pretty ridiculous with a delicate tie in thin silk tied in a four-in-hand inside a wide collar. It’ll look like a shoelace with an overhand knot. And every polyester tie I’ve handled (I currently have none, though), has been too thick and stiff for a full Windsor. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501/100 "2013-01-24T04:05:23Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Oh, certainly. The Windsor is blowing his Hairsor all over the Fucksor. Why is it that I can often watch hours of expensively produced professional comedy entertainment on film or television without getting more than a few mild chuckles out of it, but be reduced to tears and snorting at a few typed quips that a bunch of smartass Dopers flung onto the internet in their spare time for free? Either y’all are just on average way funnier than real comedians or else I am just pathologically predisposed to laughter on seeing the Arial typeface. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/windsor-knot-or-windsor-not/647501.md?page=6)