# Wine and Heart Health **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415 "2010-10-17T05:35:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TNWPsycho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/47e85d/32.png) [@TNWPsycho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TNWPsycho)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/1 "2010-10-17T05:35:39Z")
I recently read an article about how we are basically a bite of captain crunch away from releasing Streptococcus loose into our body and causing havoc on our heart. Is wine healthy for your heart because it has alcohol? Much like Listerine, i assume it kills those little bastards in our mouth. Keeping them from either rotting our teeth or ruining our heart. ---
**Author:** ![Scubaqueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@Scubaqueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scubaqueen)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/2 "2010-10-17T06:39:30Z")
i drink my fair share of merlot. supposedly good for the heart. i try to do my part. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/3 "2010-10-17T07:17:39Z")
Wine has a compound called resveratrol in it, and it is thought that resveratrol is beneficial to the heart because those people with high amounts of resveratrol in their diets naturally have lower incidences of heart disease. Wine has small amounts of resveratrol in it, red wine more than white, but still small amounts. There is no evidence that alcohol is beneficial to health, heart health or any other kind of health. There is plenty of evidence that alcohol does more health damage to more people than anything except possibly tobacco. So if you want the benefits of resveratrol, get it from other foods or a supplement. The damage you get from booze far exceeds the benefits. As for the heart itself, it is very difficult for the heart to become infected with bacteria or fungus, but it does happen. Such a disease is called endocarditis. The heart does not have its own blood supply, grabbing it’s oxygen from passing red blood cells, not from a network of arteries and veins and capillaries as the rest of the human body. If the heart gets infected, it has very few natural defenses, and prior to antibiotics, endocarditis was a death sentence. Treatment is six weeks of intravenous antiobiotics, after which they crack the chest open remove the remains of the “vegetative” growth and repair any damage. (It was the most interesting year of my life.) Alcohol in the blood stream does nothing at all to kill germs. It is of great interest to law enforcement officers. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/4 "2010-10-17T08:35:14Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > There is no evidence that alcohol is beneficial to health, heart health or any other kind of health. Surely you must be living in a different universe than I, because virtually every study I’ve heard about over the past decade or so has shown significant health benefits to moderate alchohol consumption. How on earth did you manage to arrive at such an outlandish opinion? ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/5 "2010-10-17T09:28:36Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > > > There is no evidence that alcohol is beneficial to health, heart health or any other kind of health. > > Surely you must be living in a different universe than I, because virtually every study I’ve heard about over the past decade or so has shown significant health benefits to moderate alchohol consumption. > > How on earth did you manage to arrive at such an outlandish opinion? Could you point to some? It’s dangerous to get such opinions from exaggerated mainstream media science reporting. pdts ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/6 "2010-10-17T14:42:44Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > > [@Surreal](#): > > > > Surely you must be living in a different universe than I, because virtually every study I’ve heard about over the past decade or so has shown significant health benefits to moderate alchohol consumption. > > > > How on earth did you manage to arrive at such an outlandish opinion? > > Could you point to some? It’s dangerous to get such opinions from exaggerated mainstream media science reporting. > > pdts [http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199312163292501](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199312163292501) [http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/11/1405](http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/11/1405) [http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/26/10/2785.full](http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/26/10/2785.full) [http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198808043190503](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198808043190503) [http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/12/2954.full](http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/12/2954.full) [http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/07/22/rheumatology.keq202.abstract](http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/07/22/rheumatology.keq202.abstract) [http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/6/576.abstract](http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/6/576.abstract) [http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(00)01277-7/abstract](http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(00)01277-7/abstract) [http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/9/853.full](http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/9/853.full) [http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/4/724.abstract](http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/4/724.abstract) > **[Redirecting](https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S014067369806351X)** [http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v33/n2/abs/ijo2008266a.html](http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v33/n2/abs/ijo2008266a.html) [http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=793158](http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=793158) > **[Alcohol consumption and mortality: modelling risks for men and women at...](https://www.bmj.com/content/325/7357/191.full)** > > Objective: To estimate the relation between alcohol consumption and risk of death,the level of alcohol consumption at which risk is least, and how these vary with age and sex > > Design: Analysis using published systematic reviews and population... [http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/124/3/481.short](http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/124/3/481.short) [http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/1/99](http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/1/99) [http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/150/2/187.full.pdf+html](http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/150/2/187.full.pdf+html) [http://www.annals.org/content/116/11/881.short](http://www.annals.org/content/116/11/881.short) [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?\_ob=ArticleURL&\_udi=B6T18-3Y6Y3GM-H&\_user=10&\_coverDate=01%2F31%2F2000&\_rdoc=1&\_fmt=high&\_orig=search&\_origin=search&\_sort=d&\_docanchor=&view=c&\_searchStrId=1501388595&\_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&\_acct=C000050221&\_version=1&\_urlVersion=0&\_userid=10&md5=ffe197e84dae9c577c884c35dd2e1d6a&searchtype=a](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T18-3Y6Y3GM-H&_user=10&_coverDate=01%2F31%2F2000&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1501388595&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ffe197e84dae9c577c884c35dd2e1d6a&searchtype=a) > **[Alcohol drinking and prevalence of self-reported gallstone disease in the...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7986868/)** > > We studied the relation between alcohol drinking and gallstone disease, using data from the 1983 Italian National Health Survey. This survey included information on 58,462 adults age 25 years and over (27,912 males and 30,550 females), randomly... > **[Light to moderate alcohol consumption and mortality in the elderly - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1607579/)** > > These data suggest that the relationship of low to moderate alcohol consumption with reduced total and cardiovascular mortality, which are well documented in middle age, also occur in older populations. [http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/5/579](http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/5/579) [http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/3/577](http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/3/577) > **[Redirecting](https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/014067369291277F)** [http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3048020](http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3048020) [http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(97)00388-3/abstract](http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(97)00388-3/abstract) [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.2000.951015056.x/abstract](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.2000.951015056.x/abstract) [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?\_ob=ArticleURL&\_udi=B6T57-3WB8049-1J&\_user=10&\_coverDate=03%2F15%2F1996&\_rdoc=1&\_fmt=high&\_orig=search&\_origin=search&\_sort=d&\_docanchor=&view=c&\_searchStrId=1501429386&\_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&\_acct=C000050221&\_version=1&\_urlVersion=0&\_userid=10&md5=375c697caf9344ab941ad6910a51fa72&searchtype=a](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T57-3WB8049-1J&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F15%2F1996&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1501429386&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=375c697caf9344ab941ad6910a51fa72&searchtype=a) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/7 "2010-10-17T17:57:45Z")
Of those [this one](http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(97)00388-3/abstract) is particularly interesting: > [@](#): > > Uncontrolled for total alcohol, each beverage type showed evidence for coronary protection, weakest for liquor and strongest for beer in men and wine in women. Controlled for total alcohol, these relations were much reduced, and lost statistical significance except for beer in men and both red and white wine (combined) in all persons. We conclude that (1) drinking ethyl alcohol apparently protects against coronary disease, and (2) there may be minor additional benefits associated with drinking both beer and wine, but not especially red wine. It doesn’t seem to especially be the resveratol; it is the alcohol itself, in moderation, that seems to be beneficial. Of course immoderate alcohol use is very harmful. As to the op: my first thought was to doubt that wine would have any notable effect on oral flora, but I was able to find [this](http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf070352q): > [@](#): > > Wine contains a number of biologically active compounds with beneficial effects on human health. The antibacterial action of commercial red and white wines against oral streptococci responsible for caries development and against S. pyogenes responsible for pharyngitis was studied. Its postcontact effect against S. mutans was also studied. Both wines displayed activity. The compounds responsible for such activities were succinic, malic, lactic, tartaric, citric, and acetic acid. The synthetic mixtures of the organic acids tested at the concentrations found in wine had greater antibacterial activity than the beverages, indicating that in wine they are inhibited by other components. Wine polyphenols displayed no activity against oral streptococci or S. pyogenes. Findings show that wine is active against oral streptococci and S. pyogenes and suggest that it enhances oral health. so maybe not as odd of a thought as I first thought it was. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/8 "2010-10-17T18:18:55Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > > [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > > > Could you point to some? It’s dangerous to get such opinions from exaggerated mainstream media science reporting. > > > > pdts > > [http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199312163292501](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199312163292501) > > [http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/11/1405](http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/11/1405) > > [http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/26/10/2785.full](http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/26/10/2785.full) > > [http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198808043190503](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198808043190503) > > [http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/12/2954.full](http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/12/2954.full) > > [http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/07/22/rheumatology.keq202.abstract](http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/07/22/rheumatology.keq202.abstract) > > [http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/6/576.abstract](http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/6/576.abstract) > > [http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(00)01277-7/abstract](http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(00)01277-7/abstract) > > [http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/9/853.full](http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/9/853.full) > > [http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/4/724.abstract](http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/4/724.abstract) > > [Redirecting](http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S014067369806351X) > > [Alcohol consumption promotes insulin sensitivity without affecting body fat levels | International Journal of Obesity](http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v33/n2/abs/ijo2008266a.html) > > [http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=793158](http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=793158) > > [http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7357/191.full](http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7357/191.full) > > [http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/124/3/481.short](http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/124/3/481.short) > > [http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/1/99](http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/1/99) > > [http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/150/2/187.full.pdf+html](http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/150/2/187.full.pdf+html) > > [http://www.annals.org/content/116/11/881.short](http://www.annals.org/content/116/11/881.short) > > [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?\_ob=ArticleURL&\_udi=B6T18-3Y6Y3GM-H&\_user=10&\_coverDate=01%2F31%2F2000&\_rdoc=1&\_fmt=high&\_orig=search&\_origin=search&\_sort=d&\_docanchor=&view=c&\_searchStrId=1501388595&\_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&\_acct=C000050221&\_version=1&\_urlVersion=0&\_userid=10&md5=ffe197e84dae9c577c884c35dd2e1d6a&searchtype=a](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T18-3Y6Y3GM-H&_user=10&_coverDate=01%2F31%2F2000&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1501388595&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ffe197e84dae9c577c884c35dd2e1d6a&searchtype=a) > > [Alcohol drinking and prevalence of self-reported gallstone disease in the 1983 Italian National Health Survey - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7986868) > > [Light to moderate alcohol consumption and mortality in the elderly - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1607579) > > [http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/5/579](http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/5/579) > > [http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/3/577](http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/3/577) > > [Redirecting](http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/014067369291277F) > > [http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3048020](http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3048020) > > [http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(97)00388-3/abstract](http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(97)00388-3/abstract) > > [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.2000.951015056.x/abstract](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.2000.951015056.x/abstract) > > [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?\_ob=ArticleURL&\_udi=B6T57-3WB8049-1J&\_user=10&\_coverDate=03%2F15%2F1996&\_rdoc=1&\_fmt=high&\_orig=search&\_origin=search&\_sort=d&\_docanchor=&view=c&\_searchStrId=1501429386&\_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&\_acct=C000050221&\_version=1&\_urlVersion=0&\_userid=10&md5=375c697caf9344ab941ad6910a51fa72&searchtype=a](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T57-3WB8049-1J&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F15%2F1996&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1501429386&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=375c697caf9344ab941ad6910a51fa72&searchtype=a) Well played. pdts ---
**Author:** ![cgg419](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cgg419/32/2847_2.png) [@cgg419](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cgg419)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/9 "2010-10-17T21:01:58Z")
Not that you need another cite at this point, but I find this one particularly interesting [Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers, Study Finds - TIME](http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2014332,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/10 "2010-10-17T21:12:44Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > > > There is no evidence that alcohol is beneficial to health, heart health or any other kind of health. > > Surely you must be living in a different universe than I, because virtually every study I’ve heard about over the past decade or so has shown significant health benefits to moderate alchohol consumption. > > How on earth did you manage to arrive at such an outlandish opinion? Perhaps what was meant is that all the evidence is by association and causality has not been established (AFAIK). Phrased differently, there are no RCTs to support the notion of prescribing alcohol. There are however, lots of reasons to be ultra-cautious about recommending that people increase their alcohol intake if they’re currently drinking less than two ‘units’ of alcohol daily. One of the papers you cite actually says it very nicely: > [@(Journal of) Alcohol and Alcoholism](#): > > The association between light drinking and reduced mortality compared to lifetime abstinence is robust. Confounders, such as unhealthy diet, social class, and social isolation, which are associated both with abstaining and with poorer health, have made it difficult for doctors to assess the meaning of the association, and to know how to respond to individual patients seeking advice on ‘drinking for health’ . . . The balance of risk to benefit appears to favour giving medical advice to some patients in middle life with uncontrollable risk factors for coronary heart disease (and probably of ischaemic stroke), who are very infrequent drinkers, to increase slightly the frequency of drinking (not the per session amount) and for some abstainers to consider starting to take alcohol. However, caveats render quite small the number of patients to whom physicians will give this advice . . . emphasis added (from here: [http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/6/576.abstract](http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/6/576.abstract)) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/11 "2010-10-17T21:32:23Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > > [@Surreal](#): > > > > [http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199312163292501](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199312163292501) > > > > [http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/11/1405](http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/11/1405) > > > > [http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/26/10/2785.full](http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/26/10/2785.full) > > > > [http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198808043190503](http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198808043190503) > > > > [http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/12/2954.full](http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/27/12/2954.full) > > > > [http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/07/22/rheumatology.keq202.abstract](http://rheumatology.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/07/22/rheumatology.keq202.abstract) > > > > [http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/6/576.abstract](http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/6/576.abstract) > > > > [http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(00)01277-7/abstract](http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(00)01277-7/abstract) > > > > [http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/9/853.full](http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/9/853.full) > > > > [http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/4/724.abstract](http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/4/724.abstract) > > > > [Redirecting](http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S014067369806351X) > > > > [Alcohol consumption promotes insulin sensitivity without affecting body fat levels | International Journal of Obesity](http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v33/n2/abs/ijo2008266a.html) > > > > [http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=793158](http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=793158) > > > > [http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7357/191.full](http://www.bmj.com/content/325/7357/191.full) > > > > [http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/124/3/481.short](http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/124/3/481.short) > > > > [http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/1/99](http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/1/99) > > > > [http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/150/2/187.full.pdf+html](http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/150/2/187.full.pdf+html) > > > > [http://www.annals.org/content/116/11/881.short](http://www.annals.org/content/116/11/881.short) > > > > [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?\_ob=ArticleURL&\_udi=B6T18-3Y6Y3GM-H&\_user=10&\_coverDate=01%2F31%2F2000&\_rdoc=1&\_fmt=high&\_orig=search&\_origin=search&\_sort=d&\_docanchor=&view=c&\_searchStrId=1501388595&\_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&\_acct=C000050221&\_version=1&\_urlVersion=0&\_userid=10&md5=ffe197e84dae9c577c884c35dd2e1d6a&searchtype=a](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T18-3Y6Y3GM-H&_user=10&_coverDate=01%2F31%2F2000&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1501388595&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=ffe197e84dae9c577c884c35dd2e1d6a&searchtype=a) > > > > [Alcohol drinking and prevalence of self-reported gallstone disease in the 1983 Italian National Health Survey - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7986868) > > > > [Light to moderate alcohol consumption and mortality in the elderly - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1607579) > > > > [http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/5/579](http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/289/5/579) > > > > [http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/3/577](http://www.circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/3/577) > > > > [Redirecting](http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/014067369291277F) > > > > [http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3048020](http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3048020) > > > > [http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(97)00388-3/abstract](http://www.ajconline.org/article/S0002-9149(97)00388-3/abstract) > > > > [http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.2000.951015056.x/abstract](http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1360-0443.2000.951015056.x/abstract) > > > > [http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?\_ob=ArticleURL&\_udi=B6T57-3WB8049-1J&\_user=10&\_coverDate=03%2F15%2F1996&\_rdoc=1&\_fmt=high&\_orig=search&\_origin=search&\_sort=d&\_docanchor=&view=c&\_searchStrId=1501429386&\_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&\_acct=C000050221&\_version=1&\_urlVersion=0&\_userid=10&md5=375c697caf9344ab941ad6910a51fa72&searchtype=a](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T57-3WB8049-1J&_user=10&_coverDate=03%2F15%2F1996&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1501429386&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=375c697caf9344ab941ad6910a51fa72&searchtype=a) > > Well played. > > pdts Indeed. Look, if you are going to drink, don’t kid yourself about the health benefits: they are scant to none and more likely to lead to problems. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/12 "2010-10-17T22:17:19Z")
Alcohol has been shown to raise your HDL, which is a good thing. Although only correlation has been shown, ingesting resveratrol, an antioxidant, is consistent with other good effects of antioxidants. And why not? True, confounding factors were not eliminated in studies, but antioxidants are heart healthy and elevated HDL levels are heart healthy. I’ll drink to that. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/13 "2010-10-17T22:24:49Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > antioxidants are heart healthy I won’t cry “cite!”, but will note that as the clinical trials of antioxidants and the heart roll in, it’s becoming pretty clear that “antioxidants are heart healthy” is still little more than a hypothesis. I stand to be corrected, though. So, can you cite any (good quality) clinical trials showing a benefit of supplemental anitoxidants and cardiovascular health? ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/14 "2010-10-17T22:36:48Z")
> **[Everything You Need To Know About Antioxidants](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/what-do-antioxidants-do)** > > Antioxidants are naturally occurring chemicals in foods that can serve as a defense against free radicals. A dietitian explains why they're so important for your body. > [@](#): > > Even though supplements did not prove beneficial in avoiding heart problems, foods that are sources of antioxidants are still recommended. There are benefits to getting vitamins in food that don’t necessarily occur in supplement form. For example, foods rich in antioxidants may have nutrients such as flavonoids and lycopenes which are not necessarily included standard oral vitamin supplements. Eating a diet rich in antioxidant-containing foods, such as fruits, vegetables and whole grains, is linked to a reduced risk of cardiovascular (heart and blood vessels) disease. Well, not a slam-dunk, but good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/15 "2010-10-17T22:43:28Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > [Antioxidants: What They Do and Antioxidant-Rich Foods](http://my.clevelandclinic.org/heart/disorders/cad/vitamin_e.aspx) > > > [@](#): > > > > Even though supplements did not prove beneficial in avoiding heart problems, foods that are sources of antioxidants are still recommended. There are benefits to getting vitamins in food that don’t necessarily occur in supplement form. For example, foods rich in antioxidants may have nutrients such as flavonoids and lycopenes which are not necessarily included standard oral vitamin supplements. Eating a diet rich in antioxidant-containing foods, such as fruits, vegetables and whole grains, is linked to a reduced risk of cardiovascular (heart and blood vessels) disease. > > Well, not a slam-dunk, but good enough for me. That is weak as piss. Doesn’t it basically say, ‘sure the antioxidants don’t help, but by going after antioxidants you might get some stuff that’s not totally useless?’ pdts ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/16 "2010-10-17T23:50:50Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > > [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > > > Well played. > > > > pdts > > Indeed. > > Look, if you are going to drink, don’t kid yourself about the health benefits: they are scant to none and more likely to lead to problems. Funny how some people can be given all the evidence in the world and just pretend it doesn’t exist. As far as antioxidants go, we can say with certainty those who eat lots of foods that are high in them have much better health outcomes on average than those who do not. Some have been studied individually and have beneficial effects, such as curcumin, the active component of turmeric, and some have not. You won’t go wrong eating foods high in them. ---
**Author:** ![dzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@dzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzero)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/17 "2010-10-18T04:01:31Z")
Resveratrol increases production of [sirtuins](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091214173521.htm). These are a class of proteins that are believed to be the same as those produced in people on a calorie restricted diet. I believe they are similar to heat stress proteins in yeast. [Sirtuins are believed to slow aging in humans](http://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/news/20100804/resveratrol-may-suppress-inflammation-in-humans). ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/18 "2010-10-18T15:45:11Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Perhaps what was meant is that all the evidence is by association and causality has not been established (AFAIK). Phrased differently, there are no RCTs to support the notion of prescribing alcohol. There are however, lots of reasons to be ultra-cautious about recommending that people increase their alcohol intake if they’re currently drinking less than two ‘units’ of alcohol daily. One of the papers you cite actually says it very nicely:emphasis added (from here: [http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/6/576.abstract](http://alcalc.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/6/576.abstract)) I agree that causality has not been established. One of the major confounds of alcohol consumption is that it tends to be a proxy for both social class and intellect. From the General Social Survey, here is the percentage of adults who do not drink according to their WORDSUM (a 10-word basic vocabulary test) score: 1 60.7 2 33.4 3 41.5 4 21.5 5 29.4 6 21.2 7 11.1 8 16.3 9 10.2 10 10.6 As you can see, less intelligent people are far more likely to be teetotalers. Since intelligence is strongly associated better health outcomes across the board, it’s possible that the association might disappear if the studies I listed above controlled for intellect. ---
**Author:** ![Galileo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85e7bf/32.png) [@Galileo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galileo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/19 "2010-10-18T16:12:39Z")
**Surreal** , do you have a link to the data from the General Social Survey? If there isn’t a direct public link, please clarify how you compiled the data of WORDSUM and alcohol use. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415/20 "2010-10-18T16:20:07Z")
[http://sda.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/hsda?harcsda+gss08](http://sda.berkeley.edu/cgi-bin/hsda?harcsda+gss08) I got it from the 2004 Alcohol module. Use the variables WORDSUM and EVDRINK. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-and-heart-health/557415.md?page=2)