# Wine from a powder. How? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 16, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350 "2008-12-16T03:31:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/1 "2008-12-16T03:31:58Z")
There is a Swedish Company that offers a hiker’s wine as a powder in food packs. How can you add water and get alcoholic wine from a powder? [Katadyn](http://www.katadyn.com/brands-products/trekking-mahlzeiten/tab/product-categories.html) > [@](#): > > The beverage powder that comes in convenient portions packed in pouches has an alcoholic content of 9,27%, which is similar to a light bottled wine. The wine is at the bottom of the page. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/2 "2008-12-16T03:39:00Z")
> **[Alcohol powder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_powder)** > > Alcohol powder or powdered alcohol or dry alcohol is a product generally made using micro-encapsulation. When reconstituted with water, alcohol (specifically ethanol) in powder form becomes an alcoholic drink. In March 2015 four product labels for specific powdered alcohol products were approved by the United States Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) which opened the doors for legal product sales. However, as of 4 January 2016, the product is not yet available for sale and legaliza... ---
**Author:** ![MrFloppy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@MrFloppy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrFloppy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/3 "2008-12-16T03:46:46Z")
Wow! With stadium beers at $8 each here in Bawlmer, I’m going to follow this with interest! Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale in a packet! ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/4 "2008-12-16T04:01:53Z")
Thanks for the information Captain Amazing. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/5 "2008-12-16T04:47:53Z")
This is an interesting concept. I’m suprised that someone has gotten it to work. Obviously, what you have to do is design a compound that releases ethanol on contact with water without a major effect on flavor. Initially, I thought that a diethyl carbonate plus a mild acid would do the trick, but I think the foam would take away from the pleasure of your standard Merlot. I think my best guess would be an ethoxysilane of some sort. The non-alcohol portion would simply end up as a percipitate at the bottom of your glass. In fact, it could very well become part of your glass. I don’t know anything about cyclodextrins except that any one of those OH’s could potentially be replaced with an OCH2CH3. I’m not saying that’s how it works, I’m just saying the bonding is available. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/6 "2008-12-16T05:23:09Z")
According to…ahhh…the Junior Year Cameroonian English-as-a-Foreign-Language textbook, powdered beer is a problem in Kenyan schools. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/7 "2008-12-16T05:30:28Z")
Pfft. Call when they get whiskey down. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/8 "2008-12-16T05:31:43Z")
Does anybody have such a powder for us to perform experiments on? I am very intrigued by it. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/9 "2008-12-16T11:32:08Z")
Think of the powder in a capsule. Now think of science fiction. We have our drink pills. ---
**Author:** ![Solfy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Solfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Solfy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/10 "2008-12-16T15:52:30Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > I don’t know anything about cyclodextrins except that any one of those OH’s could potentially be replaced with an OCH2CH3. I’m not saying that’s how it works, I’m just saying the bonding is available. I don’t think it’s bonding you’re looking for. It’s more like host-guest complexing. Think metals inside a crown ether, or small molecules inside a calixarene. (I did my undergrad honors thesis on modified calixarenes - they’re great fun!) I’m not a cyclodextrin expert, but the concept appears the same. For those reading who I’ve totally lost, think of a molecule shaped like a styrofoam coffee cup with the bottom punched out. Now imagine wedging a molecule in the cup so that it gets jammed halfway through. You can leave the jammed molecule in and carry the cup/molecule around, or you can squeeze the cup and force the molecule back out. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/11 "2008-12-16T17:30:16Z")
On the (very low-level) daily science show Galileo (Pro7 station) they recently test-tasted the wine powder with normal people in a bar (not gourmets) vs. real wine, and all testers said that the stuff tasted … not like wine at all, and as long as they had the choice, they would continue with the real wine. So apparently, good for hikers and similar situations, where a) your taste is affected by surroundings (simple water tastes wonderful after walking through the sun for several hours) and b) you don’t have any other choice anyway. In normal situations, it seems to taste blech. Makes sense that in a natural beverage there are not only dozens, but hundreds of taste compounds, which the chemical industry still has a hard time identifying, let alone re-creating. So they seem to go for: alcohol dissolvable + colour + a few artifical aromas + some sugar and other stuff. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/12 "2008-12-16T18:29:48Z")
> [@Solfy](#): > > I don’t think it’s bonding you’re looking for. It’s more like host-guest complexing. Think metals inside a crown ether, or small molecules inside a calixarene. (I did my undergrad honors thesis on modified calixarenes - they’re great fun!) I’m not a cyclodextrin expert, but the concept appears the same. > > For those reading who I’ve totally lost, think of a molecule shaped like a styrofoam coffee cup with the bottom punched out. Now imagine wedging a molecule in the cup so that it gets jammed halfway through. You can leave the jammed molecule in and carry the cup/molecule around, or you can squeeze the cup and force the molecule back out. That makes more sense. All of the things I had thought of require a catalyst to release. I just figured that the wine was likely acidic enough to do it. On the otherhand, it would take some time to get the reaction to go, and I don’t suppose a mountain climber wants to sit around and stir his drink for an hour. I wonder how they get the alcohol in there. Could they just soak the cyclodextrin in warm ethanol then filter it? ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/13 "2008-12-16T18:46:19Z")
I figure it tastes about the same as Kool-Aid added to vodka. It’s not something you have a desire to drink, but you could force down a few sips. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/14 "2008-12-16T18:57:54Z")
Could this poweder be snorted? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/15 "2008-12-16T20:17:31Z")
> [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](#): > > Pfft. Call when they get whiskey down. The thing is, whiskey is only, what, less than 65% water anyway (for 70 proof)? So you don’t gain all that much by dehydrating it. Just get a lightweight flask and carry the unadulterated whiskey. ---
**Author:** ![Solfy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Solfy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Solfy)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/16 "2008-12-16T20:48:38Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > That makes more sense. All of the things I had thought of require a catalyst to release. I just figured that the wine was likely acidic enough to do it. On the otherhand, it would take some time to get the reaction to go, and I don’t suppose a mountain climber wants to sit around and stir his drink for an hour. > > I wonder how they get the alcohol in there. Could they just soak the cyclodextrin in warm ethanol then filter it? Good question. If you had the right size and functional group modified cyclodextrin, it probably is that simple. It’s the same technology behind Febreeze, and no special conditions are necessary to get those cyclodextrins to pick up small odor causing molecules. The article mentions they soak up to 60% of their own weight in alcohol, which makes it sound like they complex with the alcohol spontaneously. > [@Cluricaun](#): > > Could this poweder be snorted? Depends on the mechanism that releases the EtOH from the cyclodextrin. It sounds like it releases when it hits water. I don’t know if it’s pH dependent. I suspect it wouldn’t be very pleasant to have ethanol release in your sinuses, though. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-from-a-powder-how/477350/17 "2008-12-16T21:17:29Z")
So this is how you turn water into wine? It wasn’t a miracle after all?