# Wine, Islam, and the 1001 Nights **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 8, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855 "2012-01-08T21:55:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/21 "2012-01-10T00:55:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And the Pope couldn’t have been trying to help the fishing industry, because for the most part, there was no such thing. Everyone who lived near a body of water could and did fish. That’s what made fish acceptable for a penitential meal: It was common food. If anything, it’d be the meat industry which was influential, since those who raised livestock or who hunted legally were mostly landowners. And, given the price of fish these days, it’s hardly “humble” food. To stay true to the spirit of the thing, we should probably all eat Kraft Mac & Cheese on Fridays in Lent… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/22 "2012-01-10T01:39:43Z")
> [@brujaja](#): > > Many characters in the book (including historical ones) are devout Muslims; yet they drink wine. (typically, _ **after** _ a meal, which is weird too.) Also, the characters may be portrayed as Muslims by the narrator for the sake of making them sympathetic to the audience, but they conduct themselves in the story according to the culture of the respective nation that originated the tale. And the after-meal drink (to help digestion) is a common practice in many cultures, it’s even recommended in one of Paul’s letters (grape juice, schmape juice). ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/23 "2012-01-10T12:44:28Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > No it’s not. Abstaining from meat has been a penitential practice since early Christianity. The idea that it was some act to help the fishing industry is an urban myth. I’m afraid that we’ll have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/24 "2012-01-10T13:44:08Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > I’m afraid that we’ll have to agree to disagree. Do you have a citation? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/25 "2012-01-10T14:29:20Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Also, the characters may be portrayed as Muslims by the narrator for the sake of making them sympathetic to the audience, but they conduct themselves in the story according to the culture of the respective nation that originated the tale. > . How many are portrayed as muslims? There are many about whom it would be obvious that they are not muslims to a reader just through context, definitely at the time and even today. Aladdin is set in “China”; read far east, the name is a term with a meaning like everyman, Sherazade means townswomen and “Sultan” at the time meant any warlord or leader. Many of the characters are clearly not meant to be muslims. Also at the time the stories were compiled (and many pre dated Islam) a large number of readers (perhaps even a majority) would not have been muslims. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/26 "2012-01-10T14:34:51Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > And, given the price of fish these days, it’s hardly “humble” food. To stay true to the spirit of the thing, we should probably all eat Kraft Mac & Cheese on Fridays in Lent… High Fructose Corn Syrup, by IV. 🙂 **Lust** : I, too, would like to see a cite about the Pope trying to help the fish industry with the no meat on Friday rule. This isn’t a GD thing where we can “agree to disagree”. You made a statement of fact, and if you can’t back it up, then just admit you don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/27 "2012-01-11T03:32:58Z")
Some posts in this thread have been exaggerating the amount of non-Arabic-origin content in _Alf Layla wa-Laylah_. Its textual history is very long and complex. The core of the collection, the original collection that started it all, was Hindu. A collection of stories within a frame story. The _Pañcatantra_. Because of Persia’s proximity to India, the Indian stories became popular in Persia too, and another layer of accretion was added to it: a stratum of Persian stories. The frame story with Shahrzād is from this Persian phase. Baghdad during the time of Hārūn al-Rashīd was an Arab city whose culture was Persianized. This is where the best-known stratum of stories was added, Arabic in the original. What most people think of when they think of _Alf Laylah_. The latest accretion, and the biggest in extent, is from medieval Cairo. From the Mamluk period, I think. Something like three-quarters of the whole collection is from Arabic originals. AK84, I wonder whether the name ‘Alā’ al-Dīn ‘the height of the faith’ was used in the story because it was an everyman sort of name, or did it become an everyman sort of name because of the famous story? This was all a long time ago. The literal meaning of Shahrzād is ‘daughter of the city’, _shahr zād_. Which does sound like it could be an everyperson sort of name. There is no grammatical gender in Persian, and _zād_ or _zādeh_ can mean either son or daughter. Her evil husband’s name Shahryār means ‘friend of the city’. Some friend, huh. \*I feel the spelling \ is a garbled and clunky transliteration of the Persian phrase ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/28 "2012-01-11T06:32:55Z")
> [@](#): > > How many are portrayed as muslims? There are many about whom it would be obvious that they are not muslims to a reader just through context, definitely at the time and even today. I don’t remember very many, if any, explicit mentions that a particular character is Muslim, but there certainly seemed to be a lot of “Praise Allah!” and “By Allah!”, and so on. Which I suppose could just indicate characters raised in a predominantly-Muslim environment, without necessarily saying anything about their own faith. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/29 "2012-01-11T08:40:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I don’t remember very many, if any, explicit mentions that a particular character is Muslim, but there certainly seemed to be a lot of “Praise Allah!” and “By Allah!”, and so on. Which I suppose could just indicate characters raised in a predominantly-Muslim environment, without necessarily saying anything about their own faith. Allah is just the Arabic word for God, which again does not indicate religion and more then saying “God” indicated Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/30 "2012-01-11T09:34:46Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > I’m afraid that we’ll have to agree to disagree. Well, the idea of not eating meat is mentioned in the Bible itself as something people with lesser faith do. And I’m talking something written by Paul, so definitely within the first century. Romans 14:1-3 says: > [@](#): > > Now receive the one who is weak in the faith, and do not have disputes over differing opinions. **One person believes in eating everything, but the weak person eats only vegetables.** The one who eats everything must not despise the one who does not, and the one who abstains must not judge the one who eats everything, for God has accepted him. And since later verses describe actual differences of opinion, it is clear that verse two (bolded above) is also not hypothetical. And, **Chronos** , those verses about not eating meat with blood in it are specifically concerned likewise with appearances. Paul makes an exception for the first requirement (meat sacrificed to idols), so it makes sense that there may be some for later ones. It’s not so much ignored but argued away, using Romans 14 as a guide. ---
**Author:** ![Galty\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7c8e57/32.png) [@Galty\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galty_Boy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/31 "2012-01-11T21:10:32Z")
In 1 Timothy 4:1-4, gives the answer, there will be those who will forbid eating many things of which God gave for his creation to enjoy, but this forbbiding would not be from God. ---
**Author:** ![Galty\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7c8e57/32.png) [@Galty\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galty_Boy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/32 "2012-01-11T21:23:01Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Well, the idea of not eating meat is mentioned in the Bible itself as something people with lesser faith do. And I’m talking something written by Paul, so definitely within the first century. Romans 14:1-3 says: > And since later verses describe actual differences of opinion, it is clear that verse two (bolded above) is also not hypothetical. > > And, **Chronos** , those verses about not eating meat with blood in it are specifically concerned likewise with appearances. Paul makes an exception for the first requirement (meat sacrificed to idols), so it makes sense that there may be some for later ones. It’s not so much ignored but argued away, using Romans 14 as a guide. Christian Apostles, wrote letters to christian congreations as in the Book of Acts 15:20,and 29,: “to abstain from what is strangled and from blood”, so what ever meat a christian was to eat it must be free of blood. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/33 "2012-01-12T10:55:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > High Fructose Corn Syrup, by IV. 🙂 > > **Lust** : I, too, would like to see a cite about the Pope trying to help the fish industry with the no meat on Friday rule. This isn’t a GD thing where we can “agree to disagree”. You made a statement of fact, and if you can’t back it up, then just admit you don’t know. I 'll have a little look around, obviously as this is a subject of some importance to me I’ll make it my main priority and make sure that I devote plenty of time to the search in lieu of other activities. I always respond when mischevious third parties do a little shit stirring. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855/34 "2012-01-12T19:23:05Z")
Honest ! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-islam-and-the-1001-nights/608855.md?page=1)