# Wine Tasting is Bullshit: Film at 11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 24, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662 "2013-11-24T04:51:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/101 "2013-11-26T14:04:20Z")
But beer tasting notes have a similar level of description, from my experience. I personally think there’s more to taste in beer, but from the description of the smell to the body to the taste to the lacing and whatever, there’s not a whole lot of difference between that and wine talk. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/102 "2013-11-26T14:17:18Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > The tongue is capable of only identifying 4-5 flavors at a time. Which means when a wine critique starts giving a long list of flavors - ‘slight underlying aromas of bat farts, combined with a nice lingering smokey pig intestines aftertaste’, they’re not even trying to pretend their taking their job seriously; they’re doubling down on the bullshit factor. Haven’t really got a dog in this fight\*, but feel the need to step in on this one: the tongue is capable of detecting five flavors, period: salty, sweet, sour, bitter and umami. What we perceive as “flavor” takes place primarily in the nose, which is capable of perceiving 10,000 or so scents. So you can’t really hold this one against the oenophiles. - Which is to say, I’m on the “professional wine reviewing is mostly bullshit” side, but don’t care enough to get involved in the fight. I’ll be over here ringside, having a beer and watching it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/103 "2013-11-26T14:34:28Z")
Sadly, this BS is taking over the world of beer too. There are dozens of distinct styles of beer where most people could say ‘I like it’ or ‘I don’t like it’ but, within style, I doubt most of us could tell the difference in a blind test. What you had for lunch, what mood you are in, when you last brushed your teeth and your brand of chapstick all have more effect on what you taste than that alleged faint ‘banana top note.’ The wife and I visited a Belgian restaurant the other night for some beers. Some great stuff there, here is one discription: \*Honey, pear, and green apple with a thick head \* . It did have a think head but it did not taste anything like honey, pear or apple so why use those words in the discription? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/104 "2013-11-26T14:44:18Z")
Well, the banana thing is pretty darned obvious to me. Before I got I to beers I always wondered why hefeweizens tasted strongly of bananas to me. Years later, I learned it was the yeast. Similar flavors in Belgian witbier, too, although usually more clove-y. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Surb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Surb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Surb)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/105 "2013-11-26T15:08:28Z")
I like wine. I really like red wines. A nice, full-bodied wine (Barbaresco=yum), some cheese, some chocolate, a little steak to go with and I’m happy. But don’t go blathering about how you can taste apricot, crushed raspberries (are you sure they were crushed, not squeezed?), shoe leather, and unicorn piss in the wine. I don’t buy it, you can’t make me believe it. All I think when someone does this is “pretentious wanker”. I’m glad, CHARLES EMERSON WINCHESTER the THIRD, that your glass of wine has tobacco in it, but I sure as hell will not believe you can taste it. Jesus Christ, read the reviews. They all seem to feed off each other. “Well the previous reviewer tasted racy cherries (yes, the review said racy cherries, WTF is a racy cherry?) therefore I must taste racy cherries but I must also taste a bit of Kirstie Alley’s ass\* in the finish because my taste buds are so much more refined.” As I said in a previous post, I have one old gentleman that knows his shit. He does not give the flowery prose when describing wine. You tell him the kind of wine you like and he tells you what to buy. He has not steered me wrong yet. But if you start telling me you taste tobacco, chocolate and the other crap, THURSTON THATCHER HOWELL the TREY, I’m tuning you out as a pretentious, wanking wine snob, tout de suite. And I seriously don’t care if you look down your nose at me as an unworshed\*\* peasant. It only affirms my preconceived notion, too. \*I made that one up. But I expect to see it in a review sometime \*\* misspelled for effect ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/106 "2013-11-26T15:31:31Z")
No comment on tobacco, but there are a lot of reds (particularly French Burgundy) that smell so strongly of barnyard that I challenge anyone not to notice it. It’s almost overwhelming, but I usually end up loving those wines. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/107 "2013-11-26T15:36:14Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > The wife and I visited a Belgian restaurant the other night for some beers. Some great stuff there, here is one discription: \*Honey, pear, and green apple with a thick head \* . It did have a think head but it did not taste anything like honey, pear or apple so why use those words in the discription? I’ve made up a rule of thumb that if something is described in a way that makes it sound like a cake, but it’s not a cake or cake-like, then the description is little different than praise for the emperor’s clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/108 "2013-11-26T16:05:59Z")
> [@](#): > > A real master somm—under fair conditions, blind tasting yes but without infantile trickery like dying white wine red—can identify varietal, region, and yes even sometimes winery and vintage of wine from anywhere in the world; not 100% by any means by to a degree of accuracy\* that would astonish you\*. You’re right, it would astonish me, if he could do so under controlled conditions. One of the studies cited was wine experts being given the same wine three times running, and not knowing it. If they can tell that what vineyard it comes from, why can’t they tell it is the same wine? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/109 "2013-11-26T16:09:33Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I’ve made up a rule of thumb that if something is described in a way that makes it sound like a cake, but it’s not a cake or cake-like, then the description is little different than praise for the emperor’s clothes. That’s a DAMN fine rule. A rule that has hints of vanilla and strawbery with undertones of 99% cacao and a glaze of gooseberry. 😃 In all seriousness I love it. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/110 "2013-11-26T16:19:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You’re right, it would astonish me, if he could do so under controlled conditions. One of the studies cited was wine experts being given the same wine three times running, and not knowing it. If they can tell that what vineyard it comes from, why can’t they tell it is the same wine? > > Regards, > Shodan It’s not too surprising when you consider that media publications are all-too-gleefully ready to conflate “test subject” with “wine expert.” One would have to dig deeper to see what was really going on with that study. It isn’t hard to imagine some sort of overstatement of expertise or outright trickery. A few years ago I got my husband a wine aerator as a gift. To test it, I made up glasses with wine straight from the bottle and glasses that were passed through the aerator. Being the tricky type, I gave them in sequence to my husband and niece, but I switched them for the two. That is, my husband got aerated while the out niece got non-aerated. Then the my husband got non-aerated and my niece got aerated. They both liked the aerated better even though they thought they were picking different types. Anyway, my point is, the same bottle of wine can taste different. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/111 "2013-11-26T16:23:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Wine ratings are openly subjective, this is very well understood. What baffles me is that anyone thinks they’re meant to be objective. Because the claim is made that wine experts can tell something objective about the wine just from how it tastes - what grapes it came from, who made it, and in what region. This is offered as proof that their taste is more discerning. Since they can’t demonstrate an ability to do this in blind tests, this indicates that their taste is no more discerning than anyone else’s. This is an expert? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/112 "2013-11-26T16:27:10Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > It’s not too surprising when you consider that media publications are all-too-gleefully ready to conflate “test subject” with “wine expert.” One would have to dig deeper to see what was really going on with that study. It isn’t hard to imagine some sort of overstatement of expertise or outright trickery. > > A few years ago I got my husband a wine aerator as a gift. To test it, I made up glasses with wine straight from the bottle and glasses that were passed through the aerator. Being the tricky type, I gave them in sequence to my husband and niece, but I switched them for the two. That is, my husband got aerated while the out niece got non-aerated. Then the my husband got non-aerated and my niece got aerated. They both liked the aerated better even though they thought they were picking different types. > > **Anyway, my point is, the same bottle of wine can taste different.** Then why try to describe it if the next glass from the bottle might not taste like the previous glass? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/113 "2013-11-26T16:29:22Z")
I’m generally with the BS crowd but it doesn’t seem totally fair to use trickery as part of the tests. I’d like to see a blind red/white test with experts to see if they can tell them apart; knowing that that’s what they’re trying to do. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/114 "2013-11-26T16:30:41Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Then why try to describe it if the next glass from the bottle might not taste like the previous glass? I don’t know. Why listen to the same song of music again when you’ve already heard it once? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/115 "2013-11-26T16:30:54Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Anyway, my point is, the same bottle of wine can taste different. So wine recommendations are worthless, because you can’t even be sure that the same bottle will taste the same as itself. > [@](#): > > It’s not too surprising when you consider that media publications are all-too-gleefully ready to conflate “test subject” with “wine expert.” One would have to dig deeper to see what was really going on with that study. It isn’t hard to imagine some sort of overstatement of expertise or outright trickery. > > A few years ago I got my husband a wine aerator as a gift. To test it, I made up glasses with wine straight from the bottle and glasses that were passed through the aerator. Being the tricky type, I gave them in sequence to my husband and niece, but I switched them for the two. That is, my husband got aerated while the out niece got non-aerated. Then the my husband got non-aerated and my niece got aerated. They both liked the aerated better even though they thought they were picking different types. Are your husband and your niece wine experts, or test subjects? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/116 "2013-11-26T16:34:25Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I don’t know. Why listen to the same song of music again when you’ve already heard it once? The people in the study couldn’t tell it was the same song. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/117 "2013-11-26T16:36:31Z")
Shodan you are winning my heart in this thread \<3. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/118 "2013-11-26T16:39:18Z")
I have no dog in the wine fight, but I’m amazed that people think that there can be no hints of other flavors in wine. The chemical compounds that make scent can get duplicated, on purpose or by accident, all over the place. And some people have a distaste for, or an affinity for, specific flavors, which makes their presence much more noticeable than it would be for others. If a wine tasted of mint (which I despise), I would notice. In your efforts to ridicule specific writers or experts, I think some of you are sounding as if you think there cannot be subtle flavors in things. You are throwing the flavor baby\* out with the skeptic bathwater.\*\* \*Which I hope has never been a descriptor of a glass of wine. \*\*I can’t say if this would be better or worse than flavor babies. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/119 "2013-11-26T16:40:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So wine recommendations are worthless, because you can’t even be sure that the same bottle will taste the same as itself. Are your husband and your niece wine experts, or test subjects? > > Regards, > Shodan I can’t comment on wine recommendation worthiness as I don’t drink wine myself. I don’t think my husband pays attention to them either, but I don’t know if it is because he dismisses them or because he is too busy to pay attention. In my opinion, I think the best way to select wines is to take advantage of tastings. Often at a restaurant, when ordering by the glass, the waiter or waitress will be happy to pour a sip for a taste before you need to commit. That usually works for him. Neither my husband nor niece are wine professionals. My husband is _always_ my test subject. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662/120 "2013-11-26T16:42:21Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > It’s not too surprising when you consider that media publications are all-too-gleefully ready to conflate “test subject” with “wine expert.” One would have to dig deeper to see what was really going on with that study. It isn’t hard to imagine some sort of overstatement of expertise or outright trickery. In this case the subjects were California State Fair Wine Competition judges over four years as described in [this article](http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703683804574533840282653628). I don’t know how great those judges are, but I doubt they were just random dudes pulled in off the street. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wine-tasting-is-bullshit-film-at-11/674662.md?page=7)