# "Winner stays on" social custom in public places **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 27, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283 "2011-08-27T12:41:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/41 "2011-08-28T17:58:16Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > I would say in most places the two concepts are combined. Putting the coins down states your place in the queue, while your opponent will be the winner from the previous game. Yep, that does happen, in about half the pubs IME. ---
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/42 "2011-08-28T18:41:06Z")
It’s even WSO in speed chess with the added rule that you can’t challenge in the middle of a game. It’s considered rude to interrupt a chess game even though said chess games are being played in a busy coffee shop with at least a dozen different conversations going on, including the one between the chess players and/or the peanut gallery. So in essence you have to wait the rest of this game and all of the next. Oh, and draws are replayed. But it’s the system everybody uses where I play chess. So if you happened to not bring your board, well, grab a cuppa while you wait. Let’s not even get into video games like Madden and Mortal Kombat. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/43 "2011-08-28T20:20:34Z")
> [@JessMagic](#): > > “Winner stays on” - for pool, not darts - is the norm in the majority of the pubs in Scotland. > > So, technically one person could play all night for the cost of one game. However, in practice, either he or she will eventually get beaten, or, after a few games, he or she would “retire undefeated” - stepping aside and letting other people play. Someone who was clearly much better than the other patrons, was winning every game, and didn’t step aside after a handful of games, would be considered a bit of a douchebag. > > The system is flexible. Commonly you’ll see a group of five or six friends playing amongst themselves, without the WSO rule. In pubs, as opposed to pool halls, it’s acceptable for a person outside their circle to approach them, politely ask for a game, put a coin down on the table, and wait his or her turn to play the winner. > > I fancy a game of pool now! Yup, totally. In Scotland, IME, almost all pubs that have pool only have one table anyway, and it’s rarely the focus of a night out. I also think that there’s a difference between a proper pub and the restaurant-type places the OP is referring to. Am I right in thinking that you don’t drink alcohol, **Acsenray** (apologies if I’ve mistaken you for another poster), but rules in a pub full of drinkers are better being straightforward, and not dependant on semi-complex negotiation. ---
**Author:** ![ClaytonThroop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@ClaytonThroop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ClaytonThroop)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/44 "2011-08-28T22:36:41Z")
I’m absolutely blown away at how some of you are treating the OP. Did he drown your puppy or something? Spit in your mother’s face? Piss in your cornflakes? The few times I’ve played pool in a bar, it was understood that people would take turns. Apparently this bar doesn’t actually exist. Do I even exist? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/45 "2011-08-28T23:53:52Z")
> [@ClaytonThroop](#): > > The few times I’ve played pool in a bar, it was understood that people would take turns. > > Apparently this bar doesn’t actually exist. Do I even exist? I think I will just quote myself from earlier in the thread. > [@bucketybuck](#): > > Some places play winner stays on, and some don’t. What the hell is your point?.. > > …what are you getting at here? If people in a bar want to use that system instead they will just use it, who says they can’t? Or won’t?.. > > …People will use whatever system they want. It just so happens that the winner stays on system is an easily understood system that accommodates different groups of people, and so it is often used. ---
**Author:** ![ClaytonThroop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@ClaytonThroop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ClaytonThroop)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/46 "2011-08-28T23:56:35Z")
nm, not worth it ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/47 "2011-08-28T23:59:53Z")
> [@ClaytonThroop](#): > > Did he drown your puppy or something? Spit in your mother’s face? Piss in your cornflakes? No, he didn’t. Thanks for asking though. ---
**Author:** ![6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/e19adc/32.png) [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/48 "2011-08-29T00:44:46Z")
Pissin’ on a puppy, spittin’ in your cornflakes and drowning your mother is _NOTHING_ compared to messin’ with pub rules, **ClaytonThroop** … ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/49 "2011-08-29T16:48:13Z")
> [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](#): > > Pissin’ on a puppy, spittin’ in your cornflakes and drowning your mother is _NOTHING_ compared to messin’ with pub rules, **ClaytonThroop** … … and apparently your pub has ceded the authority to set its pub rules to a thread on the SDMB? That would explain the hostility, to some extent. ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/50 "2011-08-29T17:22:56Z")
Doesn’t this stuff fall under basic social interaction? “Winner Stays On” is always the default assumption, particularly if there’s one table but there’s nothing wrong with asking to get the table next and plunking down some coins for the queue. Even in a hard and fast WSO place it still doesn’t do any harm to ask if you and your buddies can take the table for awhile, most people are nice and willing to compromise. I never liked Gervais’ comments on the issue, he comes off so damned whiny. It’s kind of like movie theatre seating, if it’s important to you, get there early/pick your venue wisely. As some folks have pointed out, lots of bars have multiple tables or tables you specifically rent, go there if pool is essential to your night out. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/51 "2011-08-29T17:26:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > If I’m at a pub, I want to play with my friends, not some stranger. Then go to a pool hall that has multiple pool tables and you can play under whatever rules for the table you are renting. If you are at a pub, with only one table, then you have to abide by whatever conventions that the people using the table when you got there. Neither is considered socially unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/52 "2011-08-29T17:37:11Z")
> [@Chopper9760](#): > > “Winner Stays On” is always the default assumption No, it isn’t. And that isn’t even the point. The question is which system you prefer and why. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > If you are at a pub, with only one table, then you have to abide by whatever conventions that the people using the table when you got there. Again, this is irrelevant. This thread is not about what _I_ do when I go into a bar, and it’s not about the rules of any particular pub or whether that pub ought to change its rules. The thread is about people’s thoughts about what they _prefer_. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/53 "2011-08-29T17:44:44Z")
Why are you all butthurt that you’re not getting the responses you desire? My posts implied that my preference was to let the occupants of the table decide how they wished to play. If I get to the pub and the table is being used, then they can play however they want to, “winner stays” or play until they want to quit. If it’s open and my buddies and I want to just play amongst ourselves, then that’s okay too. There doesn’t have to be a set out rule for the establishment, unless they choose to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/54 "2011-08-29T21:28:27Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No, it isn’t. And that isn’t even the point. The question is which system you prefer and why. So it was unclear when I posted the way I saw the matter, my opinion on the matter, and my opinion on Gervais’ opinion? _blink_ You and your buddies can have the table, I need a drink. ---
**Author:** ![6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/e19adc/32.png) [@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/55 "2011-08-29T23:31:57Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > … and apparently your pub has ceded the authority to set its pub rules to a thread on the SDMB? That would explain the hostility, to some extent. I don’t know what you’re shooting at there **Ascenray.** Something humourless and whiny, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/56 "2011-08-29T23:59:54Z")
I’d prefer that people follow the convention for the bar. If it’s WSO, that people don’t come in and try to take the table just for themselves. Or if it’s groups taking turns, playing among themselves, that someone doesn’t switch it to WSO after they take their turn. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/57 "2011-08-30T00:19:12Z")
I have never seen a coin-operated table in a bar where the house rules didn’t involve some form of “winner stays on”. My experience has all been in the USA, in Maryland, DC, Virginia, Ohio, Florida, New York and New Jersey. If a couple of friends happen to be playing a leisurely series of games, anyone could come along and place a couple of quarters on the table, which would mean the the winner of the current leisurely game would face the challenger and would have to win to stay on. I have literally never seen pool handled in any other way on coin-op tables. I seen no draw-backs or disadvantages to the custom, and really have difficulty imagining another system working as well. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/58 "2011-08-30T01:43:04Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > You are looking at it from the wrong direction. You say that you don’t want to have to play against some stranger, but don’t forget that that stranger is on the table right now, and actually has no obligation to let you on the table at all. If I am playing with my mate, why shouldn’t we both just play on all day, we have possession of the table don’t we? > > Winner stays on is a compromise between recognising current ownership\* of the table and allowing other people access to the same table. Its a social convention which developed for a reason. > > (Yeay yeah, they probably dont own the table itself, but they are in _control_ of it) This being said in the beginning of the thread seems so obvious to me that I am surprised anyone disputes it. If I am playing space invaders, I can sit there, feeding my quarters in until I run out or am over it. If I am playing darts, it is the same. Video poker…check. Why is pool different? Because people decided that not only would it be more fair, it would make the games more interesting if the person who had control of the table, offered to give it up if they lose. The winner isn’t the bad guy, they are being polite. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/59 "2011-08-30T05:34:44Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The thread is about people’s thoughts about what they _prefer_. I prefer winner stays on. Bar pool is also a spectator sport. The WSO paradigm creates sports-like tension, making time spent hanging/drinking around a pool table more interesting: Will that guy who won the last three games get knocked off? Will\*\*\* I\* **knock that guy off? Holy cow, I’ve won four games … can I keep this going? Watching a succession of random games isn’t as interesting (not completely** un\*\*interesting, just not as). WSO offers a different type of reward than some sort of round-robin setup. As noted, winning the table has a set of mini-props that are in addition to winning a game against friends. It has the reward of multiple games—it’s generally the only way you’ll play more than a couple games in an hour or so. There’s also the reward of holding the table for a while. The vast majority of games have been played as doubles (I’ve never complained if whoever had the table didn’t want to; it’s their prerogative). This puts a friend and me on the same team. When there’s more than two, someone else in our group will have put quarters up or written their name. We _do_ play together. While there are huge numbers of chuckleheads out there, one of the great things about WSO is meeting and playing against new people. While it’s a lot of fun when it’s a dead night and my friends and I sit on the table for hours, this is what pool halls are for. Someone walking in and taking a shot at the table is part of what playing in a bar is all about. Again, you’re asking about preferences, not justifications. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283/60 "2011-08-30T14:39:33Z")
I usually prefer to play with the people I’m with at the bar, but I can think of a number of times when I’ve had a great time playing WSO the kind of a spectator sport setting described by **Rhythmdvl**. It really depends on who you are with at the bar since teaming up with a buddy can be just as fun as playing against that buddy. So no, I don’t think WSO sucks balls, but I can understand the frustration with wanting to play your pals (or maybe a sig. other) and finding that the table is tied up. Sorry, Bub, you picked the wrong bar or the wrong time. I’ve had that happen and we just do something else or go somewhere else if we’re really itching to shoot pool. I take that circumstance the same way I do if a bar doesn’t have something I like on draft. Next time I’ll pick a bar that is more conducive to my plans for the night. That said, there are settings appropriate to WSO playing and others that are not. I’d be annoyed to approach what appears to be an unused table at a slow bar on a Sunday afternoon and have someone claim it’s “their table.” Only a huge asshole would insist on that if there were no other challengers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winner-stays-on-social-custom-in-public-places/594283.md?page=4)