# Winning system in Roulette **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 1, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122 "2004-06-01T19:36:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/41 "2004-06-02T15:24:15Z")
There’s also the famous MIT shoe computer of the late 70s which netted students well in excess of $100,000. But that is straight-up cheating. As for the Caro system, I can’t see any mathematical reason why that would make any sense, and I’m very skeptical of the claim that “some of the top mathematicians in the world have endorsed it.” ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/42 "2004-06-02T15:29:56Z")
**flight** wrote > [@](#): > > There are some schools of thought that you can win at roulette by watching the guy running the game. You naturally develop a rhythm when throwing the ball so many times, so if you track where he releases it versus where it lands, you can possibly predict the section of the wheel that it will hit. And such schools of thought are absolutely wrong, just as wrong as the system proposed by the OP. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/43 "2004-06-02T15:31:23Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > There’s also the famous MIT shoe computer of the late 70s which netted students well in excess of $100,000. But that is straight-up cheating. As for the Caro system, I can’t see any mathematical reason why that would make any sense, and I’m very skeptical of the claim that “some of the top mathematicians in the world have endorsed it.” Re: Caro’s system: Nope, you’re right. It is foolproof. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/44 "2004-06-02T15:35:08Z")
\*\*Quercus \*\* wrote > [@](#): > > There is one system, though, a closely guarded secret, that can cut the house advantage to literally nothing: [http://www.caro.com/caro\_roulette\_system\_1.htm](http://www.caro.com/caro_roulette_system_1.htm) No. Just no. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/45 "2004-06-02T15:45:12Z")
Yes. Just yes. After all, Caro’s system is the one I use. And I’ve never lost a penny playing roulette. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/46 "2004-06-02T15:46:50Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > No. Just no. I am not a top mathematician, but I can attest to the efficacy of the Caro system. The one time I deviated from it (with a coupon that gave the bet positive EV) I lost money. I recommend that everyone use it. Hey, what’s that [whooshing noise](http://www.caro.com/roulette_system_explained.htm)? ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/47 "2004-06-02T15:49:18Z")
The Caro system is the one I use, and I can tell you that with three trips to Vegas and one to Reno, I have never ended up losing a single penny in Roulette. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/48 "2004-06-02T16:10:42Z")
I dunno. I’ve eschewed the Caro system a few times on my forays into casinos and have come out ahead every time. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/49 "2004-06-02T16:20:27Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > No, you were right on the money. A roulette table has 1-36 (which are red/black and (duh) odd/even), plus 0 and 00. (Some have only the 0 and no 00, but I’ve never seen one in Las Vegas at least) It’s called the French wheel. When I was in Las Vegas in January 2000, the casino Paris was running a pair of roulette tables with the French wheel, and all appropriate mannerisms. Of course, the French wheel was in character for the casino. I suspect the WOPR system would be effective in roulette. 😉 (WOPR: “A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?” – _War Games_) ---
**Author:** ![rookie523](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@rookie523](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rookie523)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/50 "2004-06-02T16:38:30Z")
Great replies from everyone. But one thing is that my friend’s system isn’t about doubling the bet… He proposes tripling the bet. So if you win… you don’t just win the original bet… but you win more. A little nitpick about the system because it wouldn’t be worth it if you only win the original bet… Of course, you need a huge bank roll to support this system. Bet 10 30 90 270 810 2430 7290 21870 65610 If you lose, you lose: 10 40 120 360 1080 3240 9720 29160 87480 If you win, you win: 10 20 50 150 450 1350 4050 12150 36450 ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/51 "2004-06-02T17:02:12Z")
Actually, I feel a bit guilty. The system is quite clever. It doesn’t work in the real world, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a clever idea when you consider roullette in the abstract. For that matter, maybe we were too cavalier in dismissing it: it won’t work as described, but how might it work? 1. Betting against someone with a smaller bankroll? This might actually work. I’d have to do the maths. 2. Regularly borrowing money and declaring backruptcy? Well, fraud, more than anything, but could work if you can ge away with it. 3. Tweak the odds? Bet with someone else, who’s less professional than the house. My dad once had a friend who bet on a horse, and he said “That’ll never win!” and they bet £10 on it… at evens, as it was a “friendly” bet. My dad immediately put £5 on the horse at the bookie, and won either way… 4. Cheat. Have a computer in your shoe. Wonderful idea, but expect to get beaten up later if you’re not careful. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/52 "2004-06-02T18:05:35Z")
Yes, _in very rare cases_, someone comes up with a legitimate way to win at the casinos. In the early 1950’s someone figured out how to “rhythm” a slot machine. (Knowing when to pull the lever at the right moment). It seems the mechanical machines of years ago weren’t truly random enough and a clever person could actually come out ahead - _with knowledge and practice_. Here’s a link about this: [http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA\_Archives/CA\_Show\_Article/0,2322,731,00.html](http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Archives/CA_Show_Article/0,2322,731,00.html) That’s not a great link and you’ll need to scroll almost all the way down for a small mention of it. The way I heard it, the person who developed this system repaired slot machines and _knew exactly what he was doing_. Also, the way I heard it, the casinos got wise to this very quickly. Instead of banning players (as with BlackJack), the casinos modified the machines to become truly random and then rhythming no longer worked. That article says it could be done into the 1980’s. I _highly_ doubt that. Even back in the early 1950’s, casinos were always on alert for any kind of system (legit or not) that could make the player come out ahead. I find it unbelievable that casinos would let this “slide” for a few decades. Also, this was solved LONG before video poker ever showed its face in any casino. “The odds are always with the house. With the house !!” - Dean Martin - Ocean’s 11 (the original film) ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/53 "2004-06-02T18:13:53Z")
Sorry, I made a posting error. I meant to say, “rhythming” a slot machine was no longer possible LONG before VIDEO SLOTS ever showed up in any casinos. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/54 "2004-06-02T18:24:29Z")
Wait, regarding the Cato method, I have a question. Am I looking at the wrong roulette table, or did that link fail to eliminate 29, 31-36? > [@](#): > > So if you win… you don’t just win the original bet… Still doesn’t matter - in fact, you’re losing money even faster. > [@](#): > > Of course, you need a huge bank roll to support this system. And your friend can risk $90,000 to win $36,000 44% of the time? Do the math with those numbers. Those numbers are not your friends. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/55 "2004-06-02T18:26:29Z")
**rookie523** , but if tripling is good, then wouldn’t it be better if you _quadrupled_ the bet, huh? Yeah, what about that, huh? Or _quintupled_ it! Or _sextupled_ it? What about that, huh? Huh? Wouldn’t that be better? I mean, like, real better? Huh? Making the bet larger faster just means you bump up against the table limits faster. If the basic system doesn’t work, you can’t somehow improve it by making it go bust sooner. Haven’t you been paying any attention at all? ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/56 "2004-06-02T18:35:58Z")
> [@Shade](#): > > And here we are again. Didn’t you know it was wednesday? I’ll bet you a dollar there’s no Martingale question next Wednesday. If there is, I’ll bet you two there’s no Martingale question the Wednesday after that… ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/57 "2004-06-02T18:54:58Z")
> [@Mathochist](#): > > I’ll bet you a dollar there’s no Martingale question next Wednesday. > > If there is, I’ll bet you two there’s no Martingale question the Wednesday after that… \Are you serious about the martingales? If so, I’ll take you up on that.\ ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/58 "2004-06-02T19:01:27Z")
> [@Mathochist](#): > > I’ll bet you a dollar there’s no Martingale question next Wednesday. > > If there is, I’ll bet you two there’s no Martingale question the Wednesday after that… I’ll take your bet. And I’ll see you here next Wednesday. 😃 By the way, there’s no table limit on this bet. Although at some point (like when you’re betting me $2,048 that I won’t post a Martingales thread) it becomes worth it for you to coerce the mods into breaking my account for a day. And it becomes worth it for me to ensure that a friend posts a Martingales thread in my stead… ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/59 "2004-06-02T20:31:20Z")
I will gladly pay you Wednesday for a Martingale thread today. Oh, and the Caro system really isn’t foolproof, after all, the Casinos still have Roulette wheels. If the system was foolproof they would never make a dime on them. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/60 "2004-06-02T20:43:16Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I will gladly pay you Wednesday for a Martingale thread today. > > Oh, and the Caro system really isn’t foolproof, after all, the Casinos still have Roulette wheels. If the system was foolproof they would never make a dime on them. This is where that “whoosh” smilie would really come in handy. Read the Caro site again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122.md?page=4)