# Winning system in Roulette **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 1, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122 "2004-06-01T19:36:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/81 "2004-06-03T14:21:24Z")
**Mathochist** Sorry for mis-spelling your name. Then again if you’ll notice in another posting, I incorrectly spelled “Chhuck-A-Luck” - (with an extra ‘h’). Maybe my keyboard has problems with that particular letter. LOL But seriously, it’s a good idea you posted what you did because some folks might have taken me seriously - especially since it seems that some folks still _aren’t_ convinced that the Martingale system is a loser. Well, I’m going to the link about the “Caro system” and memorize it thoroughly before I go to Vegas and break the bank. LOL 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/82 "2004-06-03T15:12:53Z")
**Ellis Dee** , thanks for your explanatory post on betting methods and strategies for Craps. I’ve never understood Craps enough to play (though my friends all claim it’s simple). I must have some mental block. Your suggestions on how to approach the game are within my grasp. I’m going to print this out and try my luck at the game next time. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/83 "2004-06-03T15:19:07Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > In roulette, you won $10 18 times and lost 20 times, for a net $20 loss. In the field, you won $10 14 times, $20 twice, and lost 20 times, for a net $20 loss. Same damn bet No. The one is a $20 loss over 38 trials and the other is a $20 loss over 36 trials. That’s far from “statistically indistinguishable”… ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/84 "2004-06-03T15:32:22Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Table maximums prevent you from placing your 6th bet. Incorrect. You can always move to a different table, or go down to Binion’s where they’ll accept as large a bet as you want (but you can only do that once, as your first bet determines your minimum for large bets). ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/85 "2004-06-03T15:37:14Z")
One thing that never got answered to my satisfaction on this boards. Assume you have an infinite bankroll and you play a modified roulette in which there is a 50% chance of gaining $1 and a 50% chance of loosing $2. Given an infinite amount of plays, will you always reach +$1000 at some point in your play? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/86 "2004-06-03T16:00:24Z")
If you think about it for a minute, given an infinite bankroll and an infinite number of plays you will reach every number an infinite number of times. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/87 "2004-06-03T16:21:48Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Incorrect. You can always move to a different table, or go down to Binion’s where they’ll accept as large a bet as you want (but you can only do that once, as your first bet determines your minimum for large bets). So, what decade do you actually live in, and where did you get the time machine? ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/88 "2004-06-03T16:50:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Assume you have an infinite bankroll and you play a modified roulette in which there is a 50% chance of gaining $1 and a 50% chance of loosing $2. Given an infinite amount of plays, will you always reach +$1000 at some point in your play? I’m thinking that if I had an infinite amount of money, standing by a roulette table for for, oh say, 2-300 years trying to win $1,000 wouldn’t have much appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/89 "2004-06-03T18:39:13Z")
> [@The Asbestos Mango](#): > > So, what decade do you actually live in, and where did you get the time machine? Fine. I have no idea where I would find a list of Vegas casino roulette table limits. Any ideas on how I could find out if there isn’t one table in Vegas with a $100,000 limit? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/90 "2004-06-03T20:15:51Z")
Well, some of the Big Casinos on the Strip have high-roller rooms where you might find some serious high-limit gambling, but I’d be willing to bet that the minimum is also pretty high as well. But the “First bet’s your limit” rule went out when Ted Binion died and Becky took over the joint. She dropped the limits pretty severely, cut way back on comps drove off all the big-money gamblers and turned the joint into a flea circus. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/91 "2004-06-03T21:14:29Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > One thing that never got answered to my satisfaction on this boards. > > Assume you have an infinite bankroll and you play a modified roulette in which there is a 50% chance of gaining $1 and a 50% chance of loosing $2. Given an infinite amount of plays, will you always reach +$1000 at some point in your play? Given an **infinite** number of plays, as **Lemur866** said, you’ll eventually hit EVERY number. Given ANY number less than an infinite number of plays, there’s a non-zero chance you’ll reach (or not reach) any number. Ahh, statistics… ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/92 "2004-06-03T21:45:55Z")
Earlier this year some folks came up with a way to beat roulette in London: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3558273.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3558273.stm) Unfortunately they got nicked by the rozzers. I think their scam involved using phone cameras to monitor how and where and with what speed the dealer threw the ball into the wheel. They then had their phone/computer do some statistical jiggery pokery to work out which side of the wheel the ball would end up on and bet accordingly. A bit off topic but hopefully of interest. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/93 "2004-06-03T22:01:29Z")
Goddamn rozzers anyway. A guy can’t have any fun with out the $&\*(^% rozzers busting it up! What the hell’s a rozzer? ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/94 "2004-06-03T22:29:25Z")
Goddamn rozzers indeed. I empathize with your view of them in respect to ones’s ambition for enjoyment. A rozzer is a member of the police constabulary. I learnt, as I write this, that the origin of the word is hebrew: _chazer_ meaning pig. How they got from chazer to rozzer is a mystery to me. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/95 "2004-06-03T22:36:21Z")
I have a completely flawless system that always works. All you have to do is send me $10. My point is, the only way to make money with a system is to write down some crap and try to con someone into buying it from you. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/96 "2004-06-03T22:55:09Z")
Chazer, rozzer, what happened to wowzers? Seriously, and FYI: [the recent thread where we covered most of this.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=251320) And to avoid repeating myself and preserve the hamsters, [I said this,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4763530&postcount=13) and this: > [@](#): > > [Using the Martingale system], given an infinite amount of time & money, you can always win $2. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/97 "2004-06-04T00:17:47Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > Given an **infinite** number of plays, as **Lemur866** said, you’ll eventually hit EVERY number. > > Given ANY number less than an infinite number of plays, there’s a non-zero chance you’ll reach (or not reach) any number. Ahh, statistics… Not neccesarily, because it’s an unfair game (lose $2 for every $1 gained), your getting further and further away from your target as you continue playing so it’s not as simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/98 "2004-06-04T00:19:50Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > Yes, and as you head off to Vegas to make your fame and fortune, here’s something else to try. > It seems the game of **Chuck-A-Luck** (3 large dice in an hour-glass shaped ‘birdcage’) is a no-lose proposition too. You don’t have to develop a winning system either. Here’s how it works. > You bet on 1 of the 6 numbers showing up on the 3 dice. Let’s suppose you bet 1 dollar. If your number shows up on just 1 of the 3 dice, you keep your 1 dollar bet _and_ you receive another dollar. If 2 numbers show up, you receive 2 _extra_ dollars and if the number shows up on all 3 dice you win 3 _extra_ dollars (along with keeping your original bet). > So, logic would tell us that since each of the 3 dice have the numbers 1 through 6 on them, the chances of having your number showing up just once is 50%. The house pays off even more if 2 or 3 of your numbers show up. Wow - how can you lose? > From what I’ve heard, Chhuck-A-Luck is declining in popularity. I think I know why. It finally dawned on “the house” that they were losing money on this and so they are gradually “phasing out” this casino game before people get wise to the gravy train this game provides. Not a chance. The house can’t lose on the game you’re describing. You’re making an erroneous assumptions, which is that you can add the probability of a 3 showing up on each of the dice : 1 die = 1/6 chance , 2 dice = 2/6 chance, 3 dice = 3/6=1/2 chance of winning which would even out the game. This is blatantly false if you notice that if this reasonning was correct, with 6 dice, you’d have a 6/6, or 100% chance of winning. And obviously, it can be that no 3 will turn up, even if you throw 6 dice (actually, you only have something like 66% chance of a 3 turning up when you throw 6 dice) . You don’t add probabilities this way. You (and people in general) should have a little more faith in people making their living with gambling. They aren’t naive, and won’t “suddenly realize” that a game is making them losing money. They would know it beforehand, and wouldn’t implement the game, or in a case of incredible incompetence by the casino manager, they would not notice it extremely quickly (probably before the end of the first day, given the number of bets) and would phase it out immediatly. And if for some weird reason they didn’t, the word would spread quickly, people would come to play to this game and win money by busloads, and the casino would go broke in a matter of months, if not weeks. To sum up, if a game exist in a casino, there’s _no way_ _any_ system will result in you beating the house (except cheating and perhaps bribery). If some system seems attractive, it’s only because you didn’t think enough about it (casino owners did, you can be sure of it) ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/99 "2004-06-04T00:30:03Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > Not neccesarily, because it’s an unfair game (lose $2 for every $1 gained), your getting further and further away from your target as you continue playing so it’s not as simple as that. Which part are you “not neccesarily”-ing? Given an infinite bankroll and an infinite amount of plays, eventually, you’ll (probably) hit every number. Given a finite number of plays, there is a non-zero chance you’ll hit any number. Well, almost. Given n games, the maximum you can be ahead is $n, and the maximum you can be behind is $2n. Within those limits, there’s a non-zero chance to be on any number (e.g. by playing 1,000,000 games, it would be POSSIBLE to be behind by $2,000,000. The chances of that would be .5[sup]1,000,000[/sup]. I think, anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2004, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122/100 "2004-06-04T00:39:04Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Incorrect. You can always move to a different table, or go down to Binion’s where they’ll accept as large a bet as you want (but you can only do that once, as your first bet determines your minimum for large bets). Doubt it. In order for a Martingale to work, you should have at your disposal an infinite amount of money. And all house will necessarily have some sort of limit, even if this limit is incredibly high for us mere mortals. You couldn’t find any casino which would accept that Bill Gates would bet his whole fortune on black, for instance, since it couldn’t pay it back. Or perhaps they should : 1/2 chance of the company going bankrupt, and 1/2 of winning Bill Gates fortune, which is certainly a good deal. If there really wasn’t a limit, and you had unlimited money, the martingale would work (actually _anything_ would work, since you could just leave as soon as you have a net gain, which would necessarily happen at some point). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-system-in-roulette/248122.md?page=6)