# Winning the "Kobiashi Maru" scenario **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 9, 2002, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603 "2002-04-09T03:10:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/1 "2002-04-09T03:10:08Z")
This is something a friend of mine (an engineer) and I tossed around a while back. I’d like to throw it out to the Dopers and see what they say: **How to win the _Kobiashi Maru_ scenario** Go in pretty much as Savik did in ST II. Once the trap is sprung, (you realize there’s not ship needing rescue, it’s a trap by the Romulans) here’s what you do: 1. Evacuate the lower decks to the saucer hull. 2. Go to the highest warp speed possible. The Romulans give chase. 3. After everyone’s out of the propulsion hull, thru Engineering on the bridge, cause the engines to deliberately go into imbalance and create a worm hole around the ship. 4. Separate the saucer hull from the propulsion hull. The saucer hull should be throw out of the wormhole pretty much like a watermelon seed due to its momentum from being at warp speed. If the Romulan ships are close enough, they’ll be sucked into the wormhole, too, but your ship will be thrown clear. Would it work? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/2 "2002-04-09T03:51:44Z")
Something tells me the OP here is one of those folks who didn’t understand why William Shatner yelled, “GET A LIFE!” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/3 "2002-04-09T04:45:31Z")
The scenario as presented in the movie doesn’t seem all that menacing to me, but that’s only because the basic mechanics of warp speed have never been adequetely explained. “Captain, the Klingons are firing at us!” “Well, go to Warp 1. Duh.” And it’s _Kobayashi_ ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/4 "2002-04-09T05:43:44Z")
Given a sufficiently gift writer, anything is possible. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/5 "2002-04-09T07:40:54Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Separate the saucer hull from the propulsion hull. [Geek Mode ON]I don’t believe the _Constellation_ Class _Enterprise_ had a separable saucer section. That’s the _Galaxy_ Class you’re thinking of, but of course Saavik wasn’t flying a simulated _Galaxy_ Class ship, which hadn’t been invented yet.[Geek Mode as OFF as it ever gets] [Moderator Mode ON]And since this is dealing with a work of Art or Literature (Shakespeare, Joyce, Roddenberry…) I’ll just beam this thread\* on over to Cafe Society.[Moderator Mode OFF] \*Hey, Geek Mode is never _completely_ off. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/6 "2002-04-09T07:44:06Z")
Oh, and as was already alluded to, it’s a trap by simulated _Klingons_, not simulated Romulans. ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/7 "2002-04-09T09:19:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > \*\* > Would it work? \*\* If it did, they’d change the simulation so that it wouldn’t. The whole point was to make it unwinnable after all. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/8 "2002-04-09T09:51:50Z")
You could always have Scotty deconfrabulate the ionic flux dylithuim converters in phase 13Ad6 (+/- a few floccinoccihillinillipilifications). That should allow you to win the day. ---
**Author:** ![Shortie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Shortie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shortie)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/9 "2002-04-09T11:02:58Z")
Apart from the fact that ships at warp can fire at other ships at warp, as I remember Scotty tried fighting, and took out like a dozen or more ships, but they just kept on coming, hence this won’t save you… What? Anyway, Kirk still had the best plan ever. ---
**Author:** ![Why\_A\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Why\_A\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Why_A_Duck)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/10 "2002-04-09T11:19:01Z")
Didn’t Roddenbery back-pedal at one point and say that the Constellation Class Enterprise did in fact have a seperable saucer section, except it was a use-once, only in dire emergencies type of thing? Where’s that geek smiley when you need it? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/11 "2002-04-09T13:06:40Z")
Wherever your ships end up, more Klingons will appear. If you destroy the first three, six more will pop up. Destroy six, twelve appear. Destroy twelve, 24 appear. It’s designed to be unwinnable, and the computer will cheat you no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/12 "2002-04-09T13:10:18Z")
At the risk of offending purists, the Enterprise blueprints clearly showed landing gear in the saucer section (called at the time the “primary hull”). And to the OP, no, that solution would not work. The test is designed so that it’s impossible to save the ship, because saving the ship is not the objective. Evaluating the commander’s character is the objective of the test. You’ll note that Kirk never says he passed the test, only that he saved the ship and got a commendation for original thinking. No one passes the _Kobayashi Maru_ test. No one is supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![Why\_A\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Why\_A\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Why_A_Duck)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/13 "2002-04-09T13:37:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KneadToKnow \* > \*\*The test is designed so that it’s impossible to save the ship, because saving the ship is not the objective. \*\* Okay, bear with me. In ST:TNG, when Riker was giving Beverly Crusher that command test so that she could take a bridge watch (leading to the stupid Data/Lor episode where everyone beams down to the planet leaving Bev and the ship’s barber in charge - but thankfully the ship’s doctor was a phasic shield expert), was that a _Kobayashi Maru_? If it was, she did manage to save the ship. Her test was to see if she would order a shipmate and friend (Geordi) to enter a highly radiated area to fix the problem, which was similar to Wetley’s test where he had to leave a comrade trapped by wreckage. Must’ve both been a test of the whole Jack Crusher thing. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/14 "2002-04-09T14:03:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Why A Duck \* > was that a _Kobayashi Maru_ Different show, different writers, different situations, different themes being explored. The _Kobayashi Maru_ was foreshadowing of several themes explored in _Khan_, mainly the theme of victory at great price. What Dr. Crusher went through was a test of character and command decision-making ability, to be sure. But it was not the _Kobayashi Maru_ test. It should be pointed out with the same finger that what Spock did at the end of _Khan_ was not the _Kobayashi Maru_ test, either, because there was a way to save the ship; it was just a way that required a tremendous sacrifice. The _Kobayashi Maru_ is a stacked deck. If you’re taking that test, no matter how many beloved friends of 20 years you send down to engineering to get the mains back on line, you won’t win. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/15 "2002-04-09T14:14:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Why A Duck \* > **In ST:TNG, when Riker was giving Beverly Crusher that command test > …** It was counselor cleav, err…, Troi who was taking the test, not Dr. Crusher. ok, ok, I’m a geek too, I admit it. Ya happy? ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/16 "2002-04-09T15:21:17Z")
First, no it wouldn’t work. The Enterprise is destroyed within a couple of minutes; the evacuation of the propulsion unit would take much longer. Second, although it isn’t possible to win the scenario, it certainly is possible to pass the test. The test is used to guage a commanders ability to think under pressure and deal with the possibilty of encountering a no-win situation. Someone who does this well certainly has passed the test. Third, I like pie. Fourth, for the solution in the OP to have a chance at succeeding, the commander would have to abandon the idea of evacuating the propulsion section. Those people would have to be sacrificed to save the saucer section; it still wouldn’t work, but might buy some extra time, which may result in a somewhat higher score, though it really isn’t clear, nor relevant, how the scenario is scored. As it’s purpose is to set up the later scenes in which we find out that Kirk “beat” it by cheating (unconventional thinking) and has never faced a no-win situation. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/17 "2002-04-09T15:40:57Z")
First of all, I’d like to say that the OP is utter foolishness. Secondly, [geek hat on] **KneadToKnow** is correct, but he left some things out. The saucer section of the Constellation-Class vessels _were_ capable of independant operation and landing [theoretically], but no, they could not reattach. Before TNG, Starfleet lacked the the peoper mag-lock technology to enable this. The earlier classes simply used large explosive bolts to blow the saucer loose from the secondary hull - thus creating a large escape pod. [geek hat off] Now back to Skynnerd, beer and football for me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Yondan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/278dde/32.png) [@Yondan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yondan)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/18 "2002-04-09T15:52:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by HubZilla \* > \*\*You could always have Scotty deconfrabulate the ionic flux dylithuim converters in phase 13Ad6 (+/- a few floccinoccihillinillipilifications). > > That should allow you to win the day. \*\* No No NO You have to _reverse the polarity_ of the ionic flux dylithuim converters, you idiot! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/19 "2002-04-09T15:55:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gorgon Heap \* > The earlier classes simply used large explosive bolts to blow the saucer loose from the secondary hull - thus creating a large escape pod. Actually, the secondary hull (now called the “engineering section”) was the part that became the escape pod. Looking through the blueprints will show that the secondary hull is chock full of backup structures like an emergency bridge, second sickbay, etc. ---
**Author:** ![AmbushBug](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ambushbug/32/4600_2.png) [@AmbushBug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmbushBug)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2002, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603/20 "2002-04-09T15:59:26Z")
Constitution class, not Constellation class, in the 60’s-era show. Check on the separable primary hull (ref: Star Fleet Technical manual). The Enterprise of the movies (V’ger, etc) was the Enterprise class (ref: FASA sanctioned RPG). Dr. Crusher was indeed the one being tested for command. -AmbushBug (canonical reference debate: engage) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/winning-the-kobiashi-maru-scenario/102603.md?page=2)