# Wintel PCs absolutely wipe the floor with Top-o-the-line Macs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080 "2003-01-12T04:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/61 "2003-01-13T05:35:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t believe you’ve really never encountered many of them. Before I got a my first computer, I had some friends who were serious Macheads. I got a Windows-based PC, however. Do you know what their reaction was? “We’re glad you finally got a computer and now have email.” No insults, no beratement, no preaching. Slight disappointment, yes, but definitely in _perspective._ Bottom line, they were happy that I got a computer, and that was it. They were gracious. Do you know what the reaction was amongst my PC friends when I first got serious about Macs? Nagging. Arguing. Insults. “You’re making a big mistake, you’re wasting your money.” BIG hairy protestations. Not from all my PC using friends (thankfully) but from some. The contrast between how they behaved and how my Mac friends behaved was noticable. You see, I’ve had it from both sides. I’ve seen it from the perspective of a Wintel user, and a Mac user. I obviously have different experiences than you. And from _both_ sides, I’ll repeat. And on this message board—when you have a bunch of Mac users populating this board who have _not_ been starting threads which bash Windows, but instead have had to see thread after thread after thread of Mac-bashing, what kind of response do you think you’ll get on _this_ message board when (once _again_) we see another Mac-bashing thread? It _is_ about audience. Sure, anyone can start any thread about any topic—sure. But be prepared to expect a certain response when you know ahead of time that there is a certain audience. In this case, an audience of Mac users that are fed up already with Mac bashing, and also don’t necessarily have a strong history of PC bashing. I mean, come on—is that too difficult to figure out? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/62 "2003-01-13T05:40:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Because a large amount of that 8% has no qualms about spreading misinformation or flying off the handle in support of their platform of choice. And you don’t think that happens with Windows users? Hell, I was told many misleading things about Macs from my _sister_, when I was first deciding which kind of computer to buy. She told me many alarmist things about how horrible Macs were. All outdated information, or misleading information. Which was part of the reason I got a PC as my first computer. In a sense, I was partially browbeaten into getting a PC. Scared into it. It took a few years of my own self-education to figure out that I wanted to give Macs a chance. I am glad I am now cross-platform. I never would have been, had I kept on listening to the biased bullshit that the PC people regularly fed me. But do you see us Mac users regularly starting threads complaining about the lies and misinformation that PC people spread about Macs? Not really. ---
**Author:** ![Andrew\_Makepeace\_Ladd\_III](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Andrew\_Makepeace\_Ladd\_III](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andrew_Makepeace_Ladd_III)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/63 "2003-01-13T06:24:36Z")
This is rediculous, even in the pit. As a current GNU/Linux user who has also as a hobby tried out as many platforms as I could get my grubby little hands on, I must say that processing power is just as meaningless to the end user as the television commercials. As a user, if my computer does what I want it to, I’m happy. I was using an original Pentium at 266 MHz six months ago just fine, and I frequently GIMP(it’s an image processing suite) very large imagesm compress CD’s into MP3’s, etc. and any new Mac could easily ‘mop the floor’ with this. And since I feel I have to say something objectionable (albeit true), Microsoft hasn’t produced anything worthwile since Color Computer Basic. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/64 "2003-01-13T06:47:32Z")
Good frigging God. Don’t fall prey to what RMS pimps, **Andy**. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/65 "2003-01-13T06:50:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > **Before I got a my first computer, I had some friends who were serious Macheads. … The contrast between how they behaved and how my Mac friends behaved was noticable. … You see, I’ve had it from both sides. I’ve seen it from the perspective of a Wintel user, and a Mac user. I obviously have different experiences than you. And from _both_ sides, I’ll repeat.** Was this overly-long anecdote attempting to prove something? > [@](#): > > **And on this message board—when you have a bunch of Mac users populating this board who have _not_ been starting threads which bash Windows, but instead have had to see thread after thread after thread of Mac-bashing, what kind of response do you think you’ll get on _this_ message board when (once _again_) we see another Mac-bashing thread? It _is_ about audience.** That depends how many Mac users in the audience have such an emotional investment in their chosen platform that they fly off the handle at the slightest critique. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/66 "2003-01-13T07:01:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > **And you don’t think that happens with Windows users?** Not nearly as often, no. Macintosh fanatics are, at least percentage-wise, more numerous than PC fanatics. A quick perusal of the Internet will provide evidence of this. A quick discussion in a computer lab will provide evidence of this. Contrary to your implication, I never claimed that PC (or, more specifically, Windows) users don’t do the same. > [@](#): > > \*\*But do you see us Mac users regularly starting threads complaining about the lies and misinformation that PC people spread about Macs? Not really. \*\* Yes, I see exactly that. Not on this board, of course. Most of the people on this board have a “live and let live” attitude on the subject, which I agree with. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/67 "2003-01-13T07:13:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Was this overly-long anecdote attempting to prove something? Just as much as your personal observations prove. Because that’s all we’re talking about here. > [@](#): > > Macintosh fanatics are, at least percentage-wise, more numerous than PC fanatics. Cite, please? Once again, you are just giving your own perspective. I peruse the Internet, I don’t see any more fanatical Mac users than PC users. I am not seeing the same things you are seeing. Unless you consider a harmless “Made on a Mac” web button fanatical, (which I don’t see how). > [@](#): > > Contrary to your implication, I never claimed that PC (or, more specifically, Windows) users don’t do the same. Yeah, obviously not. This thread is evidence of that. > [@](#): > > Most of the people on this board have a “live and let live” attitude on the subject, which I agree with. “Live and let live” from Mac users, and _some_ Windows users. Obviously not _all_ Windows users are “live and let live”, which is why these threads keep popping up. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/68 "2003-01-13T07:18:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Mac users in the audience have such an emotional investment in their chosen platform that they fly off the handle at the slightest critique. “Slightest critique”? Is that what you think this all is? And yeah, after a while, we just get fed up. I get fed up from being lectured and nagged. On _this_ board, where we do have a more “live and let live” (well, most of the Mac users and some of the PC users, anyway) it is especially irritating. We (the Mac users) don’t usually start this shit. We want to “live and let live”. So _why_ start such a thread on _this_ board? Shouldn’t there be at least a few refuges from this platform war bullshit? Why can’t this board be one of them? ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/69 "2003-01-13T08:31:06Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by SPOOFE_ > But why are Mac fans entitled to a passion for their platform, while Windows users are not? I consider Windows XP and an Intel/AMD system to be far superior to an equivalently-priced Mac system, for my needs. So why am I not allowed to enjoy my computer? Why am I not allowed to be upset at silly “Make the switch” Mac commercials, or untrue claims about Mac capabilities? Unless you’re asserting that in order to properly enjoy your PC and get the most out of Windows XP, you need to harass Mac users about their products and their product’s ads, I don’t see why you’re taking the position you are. No one has said anything against your right to be proud of your computer, or that you can’t hate Apple’s commercials or shoot down its propagandist baloney advertisement claims. However, it is not integral to any of those things to bash Macintosh computers. Any negative remarks about Apple products and their users are therefore unnecessary, and made out of spite. Who’s really depriving who out of their enjoyment of their computer? **BlackKnight** , you’re justifying bashes on the Mac platform here because Mac users elsewhere-- offline and online-- have based PCs. Does this really make sense to you? By the same reasoning, since I once heard a man make disparaging remarks about women, it is perfectly reasonable for me to rant at the next man I see. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/70 "2003-01-13T09:22:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*Good frigging God. Don’t fall prey to what RMS pimps, **Andy**. \*\* Well, as much of a loon as I think RMS is, he’s right on that point. Linux would be useless without the GNU utilities. But I still call it just plain Linux. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/71 "2003-01-13T09:27:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > **Unless you consider a harmless “Made on a Mac” web button fanatical, (which I don’t see how).** Well, as a matter of fact… What’s so special about a web page being made on a mac? So what? Are we supposed to be impressed that Mac has a text editing feature? Why would that be something to brag about? I mean, if you want to brag, then talk about how the effects on Titanic and Lord Of The Rings were Made on a Mac. Oh, but they were done on Linux, weren’t they? 😃 Too bad. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/72 "2003-01-13T10:13:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > What’s so special about a web page being made on a mac? So what? Same could be said for the “Made with FrontPage” buttons I often see. So what? Webmasters like to put buttons up on their pages, letting people know what product(s) they used to create the page. It’s that simple. And regarding Linux being used to create such nifty special effects—that’s cool. (Hey, wait a minute. Macs can run Linux, can’t they? 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/73 "2003-01-13T10:51:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*Well, as much of a loon as I think RMS is, he’s right on that point. Linux would be useless without the GNU utilities. But I still call it just plain Linux. 🙂 \*\* Amen, brother. Fight the hegemony of RMS! He’s just pissed Hurd isn’t doing too well. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrightEyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@BrightEyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightEyes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/74 "2003-01-13T10:54:33Z")
In the '00s Libertarians will not even bother posting in reads like these. ---
**Author:** ![BrightEyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@BrightEyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightEyes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/75 "2003-01-13T11:06:15Z")
Anyway, I find that PC has alot more software, not necessaryliy all quality, while Mac makes the most out of what they got. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/76 "2003-01-13T11:35:25Z")
I’m pretty much a dye-in-the-wool x86/PC/MS person and yet, I was out shopping the other day and I have to say that in terms of design aesthetics, the mac hardware and GUI pisses all over PCs - I mean, look (for example) at the standard XP skin - it _reeks_ of ‘heavy handed user’ and the average greige PC box - it looks like a piece of industrial equipment from the 70s. Oh, I know, I know, there are (arguably)more/better apps for the PC platform, but when was it ever about applications? - owning a computer is about _looking cool_. Cars are no longer the default penis substitute. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/77 "2003-01-13T15:56:35Z")
Those actually interested in the original point of the OP (speed of image processing applications) may wish to check some analysis [here](http://www.macintouch.com/g4performance02.html). (Note, this website is centered, obviously, around Mac related things…but tends to be reliable in its analysis) ---
**Author:** ![bernse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@bernse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bernse)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/78 "2003-01-13T16:10:55Z")
Interesting link, **Beagledave**. Thanks for it. I found this somewhat interesting: > [@](#): > > So, I suspect that the Mac could chug through RAW files faster if more software vendors made a greater effort to utilize the Mac’s processing hardware to its fullest. But since that doesn’t appear to happen now, and since it hasn’t happened through the history of the development of most RAW file processing software I’m familiar with, I have no reason to believe it will happen in the future, though I hope it will. But until that happens en masse, I think it’s important to face the fact that processing task for processing task, the PC thumped the Mac in the speed report on my web site, and make that one of the factors in the computer selection process. On the otherside of the spectrum, can one say that these programs were truly _optomized_ for the P4? I don’t know, but I doubt it. I’d actually like to have seen this run on a newer Athlon and see how they compare. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/79 "2003-01-13T16:28:51Z")
**black455** > [@](#): > > Question for the Mac people that I’ve never seen directly addressed (I probably haven’t looked hard enough): When running OSX, is it possible to switch from Aqua to a more OS9-style theme? Cutesy just doesn’t do it for me. You and me both. Under Jaguar your mileage may very well vary, but under MacOS X 10.1.5 I have made successful use of Duality to change the appearance of windows to look almost exactly as they do in MacOS 9 (no red/yellow/green “traffic light” window widgets, “Platinum” style window tops with the fine horizontal lines, traditional colored Apple menu, etc); FruitMenu to restore a completely user-editable / user-configurable AppleMenu; X-Assist to restore the application-switcher menu and provide an application/favorite file launcher akin to OtherMenu or Apollo; an alias to the .Trash file on the Desktop; WindowShade X to restore windowshading; and then Dock.app is disabled by pulling it out of Core Services and putting it in Disabled Items purgatory elsewhere on my hard drive. I get the off-road-vehicle ruggedness without the silly-ass eye candy. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/80 "2003-01-13T20:40:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > **Same could be said for the “Made with FrontPage” buttons I often see. So what? Webmasters like to put buttons up on their pages, letting people know what product(s) they used to create the page. It’s that simple.** I agree. Personally, I wouldn’t use Front Page. I like coding by hand. A few years ago just for kicks, I made a button to go on all my web docs that said “Made with Pico” and one that said “Made with Wordpad”, just to make fun of all the “Made with” ads that annoyed me. But I think HTML generators are silly, especially when it’s so easy to write them by hand. HTML isn’t exactly a complicated language. > [@](#): > > \*\*And regarding Linux being used to create such nifty special effects—that’s cool. (Hey, wait a minute. Macs can run Linux, can’t they? 😉 ) \*\* They absolutely can. And I’m just in this argument for fun. I’m probably as close as you can get to what you could call an objective observer. I’ve used MS products on the intel platform for a long time, and while they do have their strengths, I’m also well aware of the way Gates stole ideas from Apple. I’m also well aware of the weaknesses in my platform and the strengths in Apple’s. That said, I do participate in my jihads… I like OpenBSD better than the other BSDs, Windows 2000 better than XP, Unix better than Windows, and Linux better than BSD or the other unices. I don’t like either vi or emacs. I use pico. 🙂 But when it’s not available and I’m forced to use one of the others, I prefer vi. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080.md?page=5)