# Wintel PCs absolutely wipe the floor with Top-o-the-line Macs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2003, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080 "2003-01-12T04:25:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/81 "2003-01-13T21:37:10Z")
gEdit 0wnz j00 suxx0r!!! **AHunter3** : Thankee. I’ll look into it after I sell my 100th pint of blood. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/82 "2003-01-14T03:07:44Z")
Far be it from me to take sides on this issue, I see benefits from both Macs or PCs But guess how many iMacs there are available for sale in Sydney right this minute? Remember this is Sydney, major metropolitan city of the Southern Hemisphere, most populous city in Australia, and centre of all things creative and business oriented… Give up? There are 2. And this was told to us by Apple Computers (Aus) themselves. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/83 "2003-01-14T06:53:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > **Cite, please? Once again, you are just giving your own perspective. I peruse the Internet, I don’t see any more fanatical Mac users than PC users.** Are you seriously doubting that, as a percentage of their total respective user-bases, Mac fanatics are not more common than PC fanatics? > [@](#): > > \*\* Obviously not _all_ Windows users are “live and let live”, which is why these threads keep popping up. \*\* I think threads like this are often a response to an attitude prevailant in the Mac community. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/84 "2003-01-14T07:00:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > **"Slightest critique"? Is that what you think this all is?** Yes. Hell, it’s barely a critique at all. > [@](#): > > \*\*So _why_ start such a thread on _this_ board? Shouldn’t there be at least a few refuges from this platform war bullshit? Why can’t this board be one of them? \*\* You want the BBQ Pit to be a place where one can’t rant about this particular issue? Why? ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/85 "2003-01-14T07:24:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AudreyK \* > **BlackKnight, you’re justifying bashes on the Mac platform here because Mac users elsewhere-- offline and online-- have based PCs. Does this really make sense to you?** Of course. This is the place for rants against anyone, anywhere. And, I’d hardly count the OP as a bash, more like a possibly off-target reply to a real or percieved attitude. > [@](#): > > \*\*By the same reasoning, since I once heard a man make disparaging remarks about women, it is perfectly reasonable for me to rant at the next man I see. \*\* No, but if you want to start a rant making a factual claim about men or women in response to a persistant attitude that you find amongst a group or groups, then you are free to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/86 "2003-01-14T11:18:43Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by BlackKnight_ > Of course. This is the place for rants against anyone, anywhere. And, I’d hardly count the OP as a bash, more like a possibly off-target reply to a real or percieved attitude. > > _to **yosemitebabe** _ > You want the BBQ Pit to be a place where one can’t rant about this particular issue? Why? By “here”, neither of us meant the Pit; we were both referring to the SDMB in general. Neither of us is attempting to write Pit policy. I thought this was clear, as the discussion had been about Mac/PC bashing away from the SDMB. Also, I wasn’t talking about the OP when I spoke of Mac bashing. I was again referring to what you and **yosemitebabe** were discussing-- that is, remarks that are intended to be inflammatory and offensive and that are made by people _elsewhere on the Internet_. So I repeat my question: do you consider it acceptable to make anti-Macintosh comments _here on the SDMB_ with the justification that Mac users _elsewhere on the Internet_ have criticized PCs? Even though, in all likelihood, the Mac users here are completely unconnected to them? > [@](#): > > No, but if you want to start a rant making a factual claim about men or women in response to a persistant attitude that you find amongst a group or groups, then you are free to do so. I’m not asking for your permission. I am asking if this is analogous to your position. > [@](#): > > Are you seriously doubting that, as a percentage of their total respective user-bases, Mac fanatics are not more common than PC fanatics? Why not? There is greater depth to PCs, with regards to components, configurations, and manufacturers. There are more software titles for PCs. There are more distinct and active operating systems for PCs (Windows 98, NT, 2000, XP, etc.) There are more brand names and relationships between these brand names. Each of those things has supporters who feel strongly about them. You have to admit-- there is simply a lot more to be fanatical about for PCs. So I don’t think it’s too farfetched to posit that PC fanatics outnumber Mac fanatics. Besides, how many Mac users have you known that were fanatics? How does this number compare to the estimated 25 million Mac users in the world? How do you know there isn’t just a very vocal minority? Furthermore, isn’t it very possible that a general anti-Mac bias makes many PC users term Macintosh users “fanatical”, when in reality the Mac users are simply on the defensive? Mac users’ responses to threads like these is often cited as evidence for Macintosh fanaticism, but when most Mac users (the ones here, at least) aren’t being criticized for their platform choice, they don’t evangelicize their platform very much. It isn’t fair to label someone ‘fanatical’ when all they’re doing is defending against an attack on their personal decisions. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/87 "2003-01-14T15:20:05Z")
[Weird Al]It’s all about the ABACUS![/Weird Al] Geez people, both sides have their sane and insane adherents, just like anything else. Now quit bickering and go to work. Oh wait, that’s me. Ok, quit bickering and I’ll go to work. ---
**Author:** ![Avumede](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/avumede/32/7235_2.png) [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/88 "2003-01-14T15:36:15Z")
Just to defend RMS here, he may be a bit kooky, but what genius isn’t? RMS has emerged to be one of the most important people of the past 10 years. It’s almost scary how prescient RMS has been in creating the GNU license, and how it has prevented Microsoft from just slurping up open-source software and doing it’s usual embrace-and-extend on it. And it’s very impressive how he does not compromise his principles at all. Truly one of the great men of our time. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/89 "2003-01-14T20:13:19Z")
> [@](#): > > _Audrey K wrote:_ > Mac users’ responses to threads like these is often cited as evidence for Macintosh fanaticism, but when most Mac users (the ones here, at least) aren’t being criticized for their platform choice, they don’t evangelicize their platform very much. It isn’t fair to label someone ‘fanatical’ when all they’re doing is defending against an attack on their personal decisions. That’s it. I get annoyed and pissed at the **rudeness** I and other Mac users are subjected to regularly because we simply made a “different” choice. Like I mentioned before—if I’d just bought a new dress, or a new car, and someone said “What a waste of money! What a piece of crap you bought!” then that would be **rude**. And yet some PC people do that all the time. After a while, we Mac people get tired of it. We react to it. And somehow that makes us “fanatical”? Because we are tired of some people around us behaving like they were raised by wolves? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Realhoops](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8dc957/32.png) [@Realhoops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Realhoops)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/90 "2003-01-14T20:49:44Z")
//hijack// Is there any equivalent to the ctrl-alt-del function for a mac? I know this is way off topic, but since the OP has brought so many mac users here I was hoping someone could help me real quick and not necessitate some other thread. Thanks in advance. //end hijack// My experience so far with my mac has been a lot like that song… “you say potat-oh, I say pot-ah-toe, you say tomat-oh, I say tom-ah-toe…” For personal home use, etc., I haven’t seen that much difference in the mac os vs. windows, frankly. They both suit my needs fine and I kind of like the fact that I have both and can use either one. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/91 "2003-01-14T21:51:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Is there any equivalent to the ctrl-alt-del function for a mac? I know this is way off topic, but since the OP has brought so many mac users here I was hoping someone could help me real quick and not necessitate some other thread. Thanks in advance. Command-Option-Escape or “top”. Under MacOS X, Cmd-Opt-Esc works like a user-friendlified version of Windows’ Ctrl-Alt-Del. You get a list of programs and you can force-quit any one of them in case it has become unresponsive. (The same keystroke combo also works under the old classica Mac operating systems, from 9 back to 6 and possibly before, inviting you to kill the frontmost application only; due to lack of protected memory this doesn’t always work as advertised. Kind of like Ctrl-Alt-Delete in Windows 3.11 used to work). The power-user version is to type “top” in the terminal. Every running process (not just applications) is listed along with a process number. You type “kill -9 \” and hit return and that nukes it with extreme prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/92 "2003-01-15T02:26:22Z")
You can reset a Mac from the keyboard with Cmd-Ctrl-Power (like Ctrl-Alt-Del used to do in the DOS days). Although if my experience with the Performa is any indication, when the Mac freezes, you may as well just skip that part and go straight to yanking the power cord. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/93 "2003-01-15T06:04:57Z")
> [@](#): > > _Mr2001 wrote:_ > Although if my experience with the Performa is any indication, when the Mac freezes, you may as well just skip that part and go straight to yanking the power cord. No, I’ve never had to do that with a more current Mac. They all have “reset” buttons which usually work just fine. (The first models of the iMac had a reset button that was small and recessed. Most of us used the legendary unfolded paper clip to get to the button. Ah—I have fond memories of that paper clip…) ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080/94 "2003-01-15T15:03:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > **You can reset a Mac from the keyboard with Cmd-Ctrl-Power (like Ctrl-Alt-Del used to do in the DOS days).** Pre-iMac you could do this. The older ADB boards for Macs (like the Performa models you mentioned) would allow you to do a hardware reset through the keyboard. Nowadays, since the keyboard is a USB connection, it relies on the OS to understand its functions, so if your system is frozen (thus effectively cutting off the USB), you’ll have to do a physical reset as **yosemitebabe** mentioned. In addition: g’bless my 14", work-provided iBook. And g’bless my home system with Windows XP. And g’bless Linux and BSD. But best of all, g’bless my old Apple IIgs, because _that_ was the rockinest system EVAH! 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wintel-pcs-absolutely-wipe-the-floor-with-top-o-the-line-macs/148080.md?page=4)