# Wireless Network, WiFi help, please?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [November 17, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741 "2003-11-17T18:35:02Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/1 "2003-11-17T18:35:02Z")
I would like to get a wireless home network. I’m tired of having the wires all over my house connecting my computer to my DSL modem. In addition, I may get a laptop soon and would like to connect from any room in the house. So, a wireless network seems the way to go.
What standard should I use? 802.11b is cheaper than 802.11g. Will I really notice a difference in the speed? I won’t be doing much transferring of files between computers; it’ll be primarily for connecting to the Internet (and possibly adding more machines in the future).
I understand that there are various issues with security concerning wireless networks. I’ve seen several websites that give info on protecting your wireless network.
Another issue is that I’d like to be able to connect to the Internet with my Palm Pilot, but I’m a bit fuzzy on how that happens.
I have a Palm m515. I know that I have to get a SD 802.11 card to do this. But from that point, how does it work? Do I just have it find my home network wirelessly and go from there? Additionally, how does web-surfing on a Palm differ from a PC. I’d imagine that some sites would be impossible to use because of software that may not be compatible with the Palm OS.
Lastly, if I get such a card for my Palm, how can I access the Internet at a “hot spot.” If I go into a Borders which advertises itself as a hot spot, what do I do then? Have my Palm search out the network? And once it does, how do I connect? Do I have to pay (and if so, who do I pay and what are the typical rates?)
Any other information would be helpful as well.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Yours truly,
Zev Steinhardt
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### Author:  [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/2 "2003-11-17T22:40:57Z")
“802.11b is cheaper than 802.11g”
b= 11mps
g= 54mps
By comparsion, Wired connection= 100mps
B is going out so it’s cheaper right now. Also, some cards have a greater range & they cost more.
For starters you need a DSL wireless router. There are alot of them, I got the best there is a Linksys but needed to return it so i went with a Netgear, which so far works great.
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### Author:  [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/3 "2003-11-17T22:57:53Z")
If you aren’t transferring large files, you won’t notice any difference in latency between 802.11b and 802.11g.
**handy** You do NOT NEED a wireless router. A simple wireless access point is sufficient and can be used in conjunction MS Internet Connection Sharing.
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### Author:  [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/4 "2003-11-17T22:58:18Z")
Yes, 802.11b is going out, and the first thing you need is a wireless router. Linksys and Netgear are both good.
I recommend 802.11g for the following reason: Home Theater PC convergence is here now, and the prices are coming down, but bandwidth will be the issue. Get yourself some 802.11g gear and be ready for direct-to-TV PC downloads and streaming video…
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### Author:  [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/5 "2003-11-17T23:07:05Z")
Thanks for the help on the home network portion of this. How about the Palm question?
Zev Steinhardt
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### Author:  [@miatachris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miatachris)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/6 "2003-11-17T23:23:11Z")
I’ve had a “b” network up in my house for about 2 years now, and I really couldn’t be more pleased. I’m on a cable modem, and I haven’t noticed my router being a choke point. According to the literature supplied with my Linksys router, it’s capable of 11 Mbps (under ideal conditions) and my cable modem service is rated at 2 Mbps. I can roam pretty much all over the house (except in a few corners in the kitchen opposite from the router) and enjoy cable-modem speed wirelessly. Setup is ALMOST ready-to-go right from the box. Linksys has been improving, though. You’ll need some numbers that are readily available from whoeverBell.
I’ve been happy w/ my Linksys router - I’ve had to replace my Linksys laptop card twice - but CompUSA has been just great about taking care of me (saving the box & receipt along with a good attitude helps). I’m using a D-link USB external receiver with one machine running XP with no problems but another, identical, receiver is driving an older 98SE machine nuts. I’m told they’re working on a new driver. Stay away from D-Link if you’re running 98 or 98SE.
If security is a real big concern, by all means enable WAP encryption. It isn’t perfect by any means, but it will mean that most folks won’t be able to read your traffic without some trouble. (Airsnort/Ethereal, I know.) I’m the computer geek in my corner of the neighborhood, and I’m the one with the most equipment and knowledge and ability to be the snooper rather than the snoopee.
I have on occasion “borrowed” my neighbor’s connection (he has a nearly identical router) when mine was down due to a modem problem (We’ve talked and both our routers are open).
As to the palm question, I can pass along some second-hand experiences from people that have the internet service available to their Kyocera 7135 palm/cellphone combo (my carrier doesn’t for my K7135, boo!) – surfing the internet on a palm is very different from a PC. You are essentially limited to sites that have anticipated palm users and have configured palm-friendly areas of their sites to use. They’re out there, but of course it remains a subset.
The current discussion (on the K7135 users site) is whether OS 4 will be supported by the SD “b” card (currently the answer is no, so 7135s won’t be able to use it) and whether the newer card will have “x” amount of ram in addition to the “b” functionality. I don’t know what version of the palm OS a m515 uses, but if you can’t use OS 5, you’re probably out of luck, from what I’ve heard.
From what little I have seen of “hotspots” fees vary very widely. Some are free, some are free with purchase, some are charge-by-the-minute. The one charge-by-the-minute spot I happened on one day wanted me to install their software to use it, and I couldn’t because I was running Linux instead of WMe on my laptop that day. In a free spot, the software intrinsic to “b” equipment is capable of searching out and connecting to the spot.
summing up:
Go “b” rather than “g”-- equipment is much cheaper and the higher “g” speed is unusable by your cable/DSL class service.
Depending on your PC OS - go Linksys if 98/SE or ME - D-Link is ok if using XP.
Use CompUSA, save boxes and receipts, especially on laptop card.
HTH, miatachris
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### Author:  [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/7 "2003-11-17T23:38:25Z")
Thanks.
One more question: At this point all I need (since I have only one computer for now) is a router and a card for my computer. I don’t need anything else, right?
Zev Steinhardt
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### Author:  [@miatachris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miatachris)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/8 "2003-11-17T23:48:30Z")
“router” being a synonym for wireless access point/router, then yes. I hesitate to say, though, because I’m cable and not DSL.
miatachris
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [November 17, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/9 "2003-11-17T23:57:15Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Eleusis \*
> \*\*If you aren’t transferring large files, you won’t notice any difference in latency between 802.11b and 802.11g.
>
> **handy** You do NOT NEED a wireless router. A simple wireless access point is sufficient and can be used in conjunction MS Internet Connection Sharing. \*\*
The cost difference between the two is negligible, and configuring ICS for multiple PCs (in my experience) can be a considerable PITA, using a router is _so_ much easier. You can get a G Linksys wireless router+access point+hub for around $ 80- 100 on sale w/ rebates and a Linksys B wireless router+access point+hub for around 50- $ 60.
The cable/DSL net speed difference between G and B is non-existent as neither is going to get anywhere fast enough to strain the data capacity of even a B link. The real difference is in data transfer between PCs on the home network. The cost difference between B and G components is so small ($ 20-30) I would go G (and have) just for the times where you need to transfer files wirelessly from one PC to the other. Any data transfer over a hundred megs or so _really_ drags on a B system. The G makes network data backups and overall data transfer _much_ faster.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/10 "2003-11-18T00:08:46Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \*
> \*\*Thanks.
>
> One more question: At this point all I need (since I have only one computer for now) is a router and a card for my computer. I don’t need anything else, right?
>
> Zev Steinhardt \*\*
That is correct. If you do get an adpater for a desktop I would recommend a wireless adapter that uses a USB cable vs the PCI card style units. The cable based units are much easier to orient for maximum signal reception than the cards that sit inside a PCI slot. Another problem with the PCI slot wireless cards, is that (depending on on the WAP/router location) their signal is often blocked by the metal case of the PC. Netgear makes a nice wireless USB adapter. I would stick with Linksys for the router.
Here is a nice diagram from Linksys illustrating some wireless network components.
[http://www.linksys.com/edu/page4.asp](http://www.linksys.com/edu/page4.asp)
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### Author:  [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/11 "2003-11-18T15:03:10Z")
“I understand that there are various issues with security concerning wireless networks. I’ve seen several websites that give info on protecting your wireless network.”
[dslreports.com](http://dslreports.com) has tons of info & free tests you might have a read there, you can read all day 🙂
[ecost.com](http://ecost.com) in their bargain countdown section usually has some cheap cards but they charge handling. Yesterday I saw a ‘b’ card for $14.99 with a range of 1,000+ feet.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/12 "2003-11-18T16:34:30Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by handy \*
> \*\*“I understand that there are various issues with security concerning wireless networks. I’ve seen several websites that give info on protecting your wireless network.”
>
> [dslreports.com](http://dslreports.com) has tons of info & free tests you might have a read there, you can read all day 🙂
>
> [ecost.com](http://ecost.com) in their bargain countdown section usually has some cheap cards but they charge handling. Yesterday I saw a ‘b’ card for $14.99 with a range of 1,000+ feet. \*\*
In my experience, real world useful range indoors for B and G networks is around 70-125 feet and sometimes less if there are brick or metallic structures in the way. Max operational range with no walls and a straight shot is around 300 feet. Any ad for a wireless card claiming 1000 feet of useful range is full of crap.
[Here is a Linksys page](http://www.linksys.com/products/wirelessstandards.asp) about the difference between the A, B and G wireless standards and the indoor ranges for them. It’s 100-150 feet max. indoors.
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### Author:  [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/13 "2003-11-18T19:29:16Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by astro \*
> \*\*The cost difference between the two is negligible \*\*
Prices right now at Circuit City:
Linksys Wireless-B 4-port router (BEFW11S4): $49.99 after $20 rebate
Linksys Wireless-B PCMCIA card (WPC11): $49.99 after $10 rebate
Linksys Wireless-G 4-port router (WRT54G): $89.99 after $10 rebate
Linksys Wireless-G PCMCIA card (WPC54G): $69.99 after $10 rebate
So buying what you need to get an 802.11b network with your laptop would cost $100. For 802.11g, it’s $160. I’ll even be conservative, and let you keep the rebates. That still makes the price difference $50.
I dunno about you, but an extra $50 on $100 worth of purchases is not negligible to me.
I generally recommend for people to buy “b” stuff. The performance difference doesn’t justify the price difference for the average person, especially since the vast majority of users will only be using the network to route a broadband connection that’s a lot slower than even the slower standard. I think by the time the need the higher capacity, 54Mbps stuff will be so cheap they won’t worry about upgrading. They’ll probably only end up spending that price difference they’re saving now, anyway.
In the meantime, that money could be used on better things: like investments to grow it, or booze and hookers to blow it.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/14 "2003-11-18T21:15:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by audilover \*
> \*\*Prices right now at Circuit City:
>
> Linksys Wireless-B 4-port router (BEFW11S4): $49.99 after $20 rebate
> Linksys Wireless-B PCMCIA card (WPC11): $49.99 after $10 rebate
>
> Linksys Wireless-G 4-port router (WRT54G): $89.99 after $10 rebate
> Linksys Wireless-G PCMCIA card (WPC54G): $69.99 after $10 rebate
>
> So buying what you need to get an 802.11b network with your laptop would cost $100. For 802.11g, it’s $160. I’ll even be conservative, and let you keep the rebates. That still makes the price difference $50.
>
> I dunno about you, but an extra $50 on $100 worth of purchases is not negligible to me.
>
> I generally recommend for people to buy “b” stuff. The performance difference doesn’t justify the price difference for the average person, especially since the vast majority of users will only be using the network to route a broadband connection that’s a lot slower than even the slower standard. I think by the time the need the higher capacity, 54Mbps stuff will be so cheap they won’t worry about upgrading. They’ll probably only end up spending that price difference they’re saving now, anyway.
>
> In the meantime, that money could be used on better things: like investments to grow it, or booze and hookers to blow it. \*\*
$ 50.00 extra to have a home wireless network that is 5X faster in transferring files from point to point is worth it _to me_ for the times I do want to throw files around. Moving several hundreds of megs to gigs of files around can take hours on a B network. Doing it in 1/5th the time for only fifty bucks extra is a relative deal (to me).
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### Author:  [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/15 "2003-11-18T21:53:13Z")
So, if I understand, G is much better if you intend to transfer files from computer to computer within the wireless network. If you only use it to access the internet, G and B will be basically identical, since your internet connection will be the bottleneck?
Out of curiosity, if you don’t mind a little hijack… I have 2 laptops I intend to connect through the same DSL/cable conection. One needs good security (work computer, IBM Thinkpad, work frowns on wireless) the other wants to roam (home computer, apple powerbook). Does wireless play well in conjunction with a hardwired router?
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### Author:  [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/16 "2003-11-18T22:16:03Z")
" Does wireless play well in conjunction with a hardwired router?"
The ones I bought are wired & wireles. Usually routers are for 4 ports wired.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/17 "2003-11-18T22:22:24Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Cheesesteak \*
> \*\*So, if I understand, G is much better if you intend to transfer files from computer to computer within the wireless network. If you only use it to access the internet, G and B will be basically identical, since your internet connection will be the bottleneck?
>
> Out of curiosity, if you don’t mind a little hijack… I have 2 laptops I intend to connect through the same DSL/cable conection. One needs good security (work computer, IBM Thinkpad, work frowns on wireless) the other wants to roam (home computer, apple powerbook). Does wireless play well in conjunction with a hardwired router? \*\*
You can get a Linksys B or G for around 50- 80 respectively that includes a router/switch + 253 wireless connections capability + 4 hardwired ethernet ports + hardwired uplink option + hardware firewall and some fairly good security options. Just replace the hardwired router with a wired/wireless combo like one of the two mentioned.
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### Author:  [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/18 "2003-11-18T22:32:26Z")
Here is an ‘a’ product, only $19.95 at [tigerdirect.com](http://tigerdirect.com):
(‘a’ cards are kind of expensive)
"Ultra-fast, Roaming Access to Network Resources!
NETGEAR’s HE102 802.11a Wireless Access Point provides users untethered access to the network and Internet whether in their conference room, home, classroom or cafeteria.
“FAR-REACHING
Extends your Ethernet LAN by allowing secure, mobile access to network resources. Simply connect one or more NETGEAR HE102 Access Points to your existing network or broadband connection, then add a Wireless PC Card Adapter to each notebook PC. With high-speed wireless connectivity, moble users can be more productive, wherever their work happens to be.”
```
Item No. N100-1436 P
```
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### Author:  [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/19 "2003-11-18T23:10:04Z")
Is G backwards compatible to B? Can I slowly upgrade by B system?
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### Author:  [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)
#### Post date: [November 18, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wireless-network-wifi-help-please/213741/20 "2003-11-18T23:33:24Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by astro \*
> \*\*$ 50.00 extra to have a home wireless network that is 5X faster in transferring files from point to point is worth it _to me_ for the times I do want to throw files around. Moving several hundreds of megs to gigs of files around can take hours on a B network. Doing it in 1/5th the time for only fifty bucks extra is a relative deal (to me). \*\*
Yeah, but like I indicated in my post, you are not indicative of the average user. The average user is one who browses a few daily web sites, forwards stupid urban legend emails, plays some Hearts at Yahoo! Games, and maybe downloads a handful of mp3’s now and then. Like it or not, that’s the kind of stuff the vast majority of home PC users are doing with their network. For that large part of the population, they won’t benefit from the extra bandwidth, and won’t in the forseeable future.
The power user that is always transferring huge amounts of data between machines, or anything else that taxes the capabilities of an 11Mbps network is the rare, über-geeky minority. I’m in that category as well, but I never pretend that I’m a typical PC user.
I sold hardware, and worked in consumer tech support, long enough to know what “average” really is. And it often involves referring to the tower as “the modem.”
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