Spec grade is always worth it for home in my opinion.
That’s what I was trained to use on all normal branch circuits, but we did industrial construction, not residential. I was actually surprised the first time I saw 14awg in a house circuit. But yeah, with a 100 foot run, fewer issues with #12.
It’s a bedroom. One ceiling fan and a couple of can lights in the closet (well, nowadays they’re really just LED discs) and then three outlets per wall.
And yes, I’d need two home runs. It’s a very large house with a very odd layout, forcing me to go around a central structure rather than over or through it.
And in order to split off my office I’ll need a home run for that as well. As I mentioned, the attic, this bedroom, and my office are all one circuit. I’ll leave the attic as-is for now, re-wire the bedroom, and for now just run a new lead to the first box in the office so that it’s 1. on its own circuit and 2. when I’m ready to tackle that room it will have grounded wire feeding it
That’s for sure. My moms house, built in the 50’s was horrible electrical outlet wise. Fine in it’s time, but was ridiculous for today.
I would probably go with 12ga. Get a good, or new pair of wire strippers. And of course, put in more outlets than you think you will need. Not necessarily because you will use them all, but because the use and pattern of the room will change.
I built a loft with a bathroom underneath in our master bedroom. It became where I set up my computer. This was ~ 20 years ago. I have one 4 outlet box, and one standard 2 outlet box.
Now this space is my full time work from home office. I’d like more outlets, but it works.
Definitely 12 AWG. (And, yes, I am an electrical contractor.)
One of the first things you learn is that you should go the extra step if you even THINK it might be a good idea. Another example is that you never bury a single conduit. Putting in a duct bank for some lighting? Double the number of PVC conduits. If you need one, bury two. The same principle applies to data cabling. Need two data ports? Install four. The cost difference is negligible.
OK, since we’re on the subject, I had a question about the snapshot cable staples.
I’m familiar with these, but never used them. Since I’m going to have a number of cables following the same route, I think they’d be handy and keep things neat. I must confess that super neat and straight runs of cable have never been my strong suit.
So I bought a pack, and my question is this: If I put one cable in each slot, it’s very loose and while it will keep the cable in place, if one were to pull on it it will slide through. When I use a traditional staple, it grips the cable much more firmly, which I always presumed was by design. So are these multi-cable staples adequate?
Bringing this back up for a FQ on something I’ve run into.
I went with 20A and thus 12AWG. As part of this I have a leg that goes to a box for a switch and then to some can lights. I wanted those can lights on a dimmer, and I can’t find a dimmer switch that states it’s rated for 20A.
Doing a little digging, I’m seeing a lot of people claiming that a 15A rated switch on a 20A circuit is acceptable IF the switch controls a fixed load that will be below 20A. Which exactly two LED can lights will be.
I’d appreciate if someone who knows could confirm this is true, since I never would have thought so, though it does make sense that it’s hard to imagine two can lights (even incandescent) pulling more than 15A.
Thanks!
IANAE, but that would make sense.
A similar situation would be a light switch; if you run a 20 A circuit, and there are some ceiling lights on the circuit, I’m pretty sure it’s O.K. to install a 15 A switch for the lights.
Completely agree it makes sense. And logically I wouldn’t be the least bit worried about burning the place down. BUT, I like to do things according to code, and so I just want to know. And if I DO go against code, I only ever want to do so knowingly.
Did a little research. Looks like a 15 A switch is fine (on a 15 A or 20 A circuit) as long as the load draws less than 15 A. So I would think a 15 A dimmer would also be fine.
According to NEC 404.14 (A) (5),
(A) Alternating-Current General-Use Snap Switch
This form of switch shall only be used on ac circuits and used for controlling the following:
(5) Electronic ballasts, self-ballasted lamps, compact fluorescent lamps, and LED lamp loads with their associated drivers, not exceeding 20 amperes and not exceeding the ampere rating of the switch at the voltage applied.
Then presumably you know that the NEC is advisory only, and “code” is whatever your municipality or county says it is. Commonly that’s the NEC plus the following list of umpty-dozen tweaks.
Modulo the personal bugbears of whichever random turdbird of an inspector shows up and whether or not they enjoyed their lunch.
More seriosly & succinctly, NEC is a great place to start. But if you’re really seeking compliance for compliance’s sake, it’s a bad place to stop.
Well, yes and no. I’m not an electrician, so I don’t know the code inside and out like a pro would. I make sure I know what applies to what I’m doing, which is strictly residential, and when I run into something new like this I have to look into it.
That said, of course I am aware that the inspectors can be capricious and even stupid. I’ve had work done at my place and seen inspectors miss major items, and call out things that are absolutely allowed.
All that said, there will be no inspection of this work because I live in a nanny town in a nanny state that thinks homeowners shouldn’t be allowed to work on their own properties. Something that deserves a pit thread all its own (seriously, in Mass it is illegal to so much as replace the faucet to the kitchen sink unless you’re a licensed plumber). And my town simply will not give electrical permits to homeowners (well, I suppose if they happen to be a licensed electrician they would)
Massachusetts law prohibits anyone but a licensed professional from installing, removing or repairing plumbing. The reasons for this may not, at first, be obvious, but public safety is of primary importance.
Which is why I will not stay here any longer than necessary.
Homeowners’ insurance companies are rapidly pushing for similar laws all over the country.
All in the name of reducing claims, plus the advantage (to them) of having a licensed insured contractor to subrogate after they’ve paid off your damage claim.
Get brand name Wago. Amazon / Temo knockoffs can be dangerous.
I should have mentioned, I like the Wagos. I get a little paranoid, checking them, because I’ve noticed that if the wire is even a tiny bit off the bottom (if that makes sense) it will pull out. Much easier to fold back into the box, though. And with the 12AWG that’s a nice help.
Interesting, I didn’t know it was the insurance companies pushing this. But that makes sense. Still, though, it infuriates me.
Just an update, in case anyone cares. The office is now broken off and on its own circuit. I now have a whopping two grounded outlets in there, but at least the feed in now has a ground, and when I get to that room it will be easy to update the rest.
Nearly all the bedroom roughing in is done and receptacles installed. Just have to find a path for the wire from the switch to the box for the ceiling fan. Room is down to studs but I’m saving the ceiling because its in excellent shape.
And yes, I know the pros put the receptacles in after the sheetrock. But since I’m not a pro, I like to take everything live first and make sure there are no issues while everything is still accessible. Even if it means I have to remove receptacles, it’s worth the peace of mind.
Fellow Bay Stater. I have asked our electrical inspector (in a confrontational setting) why, if it’s illegal for me to do my own electrical work in my own house, can I purchase all of the components to do said wiring at the local Lowe’s or Home Depot without showing an electrician’s license. I can’t purchase a firearm in our state without a license, and that’s a public safety policy, isn’t a junction box or spool of 12-2 Romex just as dangerous?
I didn’t get a coherent response…
I have also been told, by that same inspector, that technically Christmas lights are festoon lighting, which require a permit and installation by a licensed electrician. He chooses not to enforce that because of political pressure. Huh.
…As an aside, am I the only one who keeps seeing “in an FPD” appended to the end of this thread title?
No but I will now!
I fully expect the day to come when that will change. FW Webb near me will not sell water heaters to a non-licensed plumber. I believe that’s their policy, and probably because pros are their customer base, and not a law. But I don’t doubt for a minute the state would love to require a license for those things.
The reason I quoted the website upthread was that in my experience most people are unaware that they are no longer allowed to work on their own homes. I think they do these things quietly- boiling the frog and all that.
In some ways I agree, I’m sure the trades would be thrilled to lock out the average homeowner DIY. All in the pursuit of public safety, of course.
On the other side, I can see torches and pitchforks on Beacon Hill if the state ever pushed the issue. I think the pushback would be severe enough that either the legislature would fix it or there’d be a citizen’s initiative to fix it.
I can imagine the advertising now. Floods and fires from shoddy homeowner work versus leaking faucets and blown circuit breakers because someone can’t afford the plumber or electrician.