# Wisconsin GOP passes union-stripping bill **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111 "2011-03-10T00:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/181 "2011-03-10T17:56:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Gee, could it be that your opinion is simply that, and that people of good faith can disagree without being evil or stupid? Or it could be that the GOP just hasn’t become racist or sexist enough FOR YOU to feel uncomfortable. Yet. The way they’re going, give it ten more years. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/182 "2011-03-10T18:01:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Seriously – go ahead and lay out the big picture. Show me what I’m missing. Been done and done and done here. And you are ignoring it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/183 "2011-03-10T18:03:46Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m pretty sure we won’t have to wait that long. Did I miss your reply to my offer of a wager? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/184 "2011-03-10T18:05:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Been done and done and done here. > > And you are ignoring it. I’m denying it. And for evidence, your side seems to be offering up, “Just LOOK! Can’t you see? You’re not that stupid, are you?” (Except for **margin** , who is offering up little turd pellets similar to rabbit feces, only less pleasant.) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/185 "2011-03-10T18:06:17Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Yes the voters are too stupid to vote against them because they are worried about fags marrying somewhere. So the voters’ collective intentions are the Holy Grail of Rightness… except where they’re wrong, the intolerant bastards. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/186 "2011-03-10T18:09:46Z")
> [@Oldeb](#): > > Please give an example of an improved working enviroment not related to pressure from government laws or worker unions or expected pressure from same. Sure. Stock options Flexible scheduling Employee life insurance Dental Vision Employee discounts Education reimbursement “Personal” days Mass transit reimbursement Casual Friday Parental leave more than the law requires Same-sex-partner benefits Free or subsidised company cafeteria Employee assistance programs On-site massages and dry-cleaning pickup Adoption assistance Some of those are more common than others, but I’ve had all of them at various places I’ve worked. The history of both paid vacations and employee retirement benefits are complicated, but certainly can’t be reduced to “nobody had them, and then the unions/laws stepped in and made them common” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/187 "2011-03-10T18:11:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So the voters’ collective intentions are the Holy Grail of Rightness… except where they’re wrong, the intolerant bastards. Did any of these people campaign on rolling back child labor laws? Killing unions? Restricting student voting rights? Kicking out elected officials by fiat? ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/188 "2011-03-10T18:12:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > OK. And the Wisconsin legislature passing a law eliminating the ability of Wisconsin public employees to collectively bargain advances to goal of defunding OSHA… how? You have it wrong. They’re both goals and linked because they both attack values held by the opposing party. [http://www.scpr.org/news/2011/03/01/osha-budget-cut-plan-spotlights-regulatory-debate/](http://www.scpr.org/news/2011/03/01/osha-budget-cut-plan-spotlights-regulatory-debate/) They’re both attacked as “bad for business”. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/189 "2011-03-10T18:13:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > **margin** is a useless waste of oxygen Really? She probably has boobs. You could look at those while she breathes your precious air. Calm the fuck down, okay? I’'m pretty sure she wouldn’t let you, if she knew. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/190 "2011-03-10T18:15:37Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Been done and done and done here. > > And you are ignoring it. Truth is, I’m one of the very people on this board who even-handedly applies my principles to the facts, whichever side may benefit from them. Truth is, I’m one of the very people here that’s willing to admit error and concede a point. If you had any interest in actually learning something, you’d do what I do: hang out on a board that has a majority opposed to your viewpoint. I don’t have an opinion that I can’t defend rigorously against attack, because my opinions get tested here all the time. You laugh at conservatives who don’t want to examine opposing views as you sit here in your liberal echo chamber, where everyone congratulates each other for having the correct opinion. And you look at ME and say I should get it, by osmosis? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/191 "2011-03-10T18:16:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Your side of idiots just refused to back down from the claim that the “likely result” of this legislation is a return to the days of no workplace safety rules. It’s a “no shit,” certainty. > > If this were just **margin** , I’d be bemused and casually dismissive; **margin** requiring no serious thought. But **xenophon41** surprises me. If the rules allowing self defense were rescinded would you find that the likely result would be more assault? Employers want to get as much productivity out of workers for as little pay as possible. Collective bargaining is the defense workers have against that. Protip: Just because your side wins, you shouldn’t assume it was the right thing against all evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/192 "2011-03-10T18:17:39Z")
> [@Darth\_Nader](#): > > Really? She probably has boobs. You could look at those while she breathes your precious air. > > Calm the fuck down, okay? > > I’'m pretty sure she wouldn’t let you, if she knew. How sexist!! ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/193 "2011-03-10T18:18:15Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Sure. > > Stock options > Flexible scheduling > Employee life insurance > Dental > Vision > Employee discounts > Education reimbursement > “Personal” days > Mass transit reimbursement > Casual Friday > Parental leave more than the law requires > Same-sex-partner benefits > Free or subsidised company cafeteria > Employee assistance programs > On-site massages and dry-cleaning pickup > Adoption assistance > > Some of those are more common than others, but I’ve had all of them at various places I’ve worked. > > The history of both paid vacations and employee retirement benefits are complicated, but certainly can’t be reduced to “nobody had them, and then the unions/laws stepped in and made them common” You’re serious? You think you’d have these benefits if the unions hadn’t been fighting long before any of them became options. > **[Sixteen Tons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen_Tons)** > > "Sixteen Tons" is a song written by Merle Travis about a coal miner, based on life in the mines of Rosewood, Kentucky. Travis first recorded the song at the Radio Recorders Studio B in Hollywood, California, on August 8, 1946. Cliffie Stone played bass on the recording. It was first released in July 1947 by Capitol on Travis's album Folk Songs of the Hills. The song became a gold record. > The sole authorship of "Sixteen Tons" is attributed to Merle Travis on all recordings beginning with Travi... > [@](#): > > According to Travis, the line from the chorus “another day older and deeper in debt” was a phrase often used by his father, a coal miner himself.[1] This and the line “I owe my soul to the company store” is a reference to the truck system and to debt bondage. Under this system workers were not paid cash; rather they were paid with unexchangeable credit vouchers for goods at the company store, usually referred to as scrip. This made it impossible for workers to store up cash savings. Workers also usually lived in company-owned dormitories or houses, the rent for which was automatically deducted from their pay. In the United States the truck system and associated debt bondage persisted until the strikes of the newly-formed United Mine Workers and affiliated unions forced an end to such practices. I guess they don’t teach history in school anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/194 "2011-03-10T18:19:32Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If the rules allowing self defense were rescinded would you find that the likely result would be more assault? > > Employers want to get as much productivity out of workers for as little pay as possible. Collective bargaining is the defense workers have against that. Yes, but this bill doesn’t eliminate all collective bargaining – just state government workers’ collective bargaining. The maleficent employer you’re worried about here is the state government itself. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/195 "2011-03-10T18:25:04Z")
They’re only coming for the state workers of Wisconsin? Well, that’s a relief, I’m not a state worker in Wisconsin! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/196 "2011-03-10T18:26:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, but this bill doesn’t eliminate all collective bargaining – just state government workers’ collective bargaining. The maleficent employer you’re worried about here is the state government itself. The maleficent employer here specifically targeted unions that opposed the governor. Those who supported him are “rewarded” by not being included in this supposedly necessary bill. Smells like retribution from the employer to me. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/197 "2011-03-10T18:28:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How sexist!! How? Do you think boobs are a bad thing? Do you hate motherhood? Wait. I am against some boobs right now, actually. Hmm. Very soothing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/198 "2011-03-10T18:32:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The maleficent employer here specifically targeted unions that opposed the governor. Those who supported him are “rewarded” by not being included in this supposedly necessary bill. > > Smells like retribution from the employer to me. Those accusations rest on comparatively shaky ground, according to reliable lefty sources I read. My best guess is that he exempted such unions as he did due to their relative popularity amongst the people, and only marginally, if at all, due to their support of him personally. Since they’ve all pretty much bailed out on him, the point is moot. We have solid accusations to advance here, I see no reason to include anything remotely shaky. ---
**Author:** ![Sully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@Sully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sully)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/199 "2011-03-10T18:32:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, but this bill doesn’t eliminate all collective bargaining – just state government workers’ collective bargaining. The maleficent employer you’re worried about here is the state government itself. Yes, the same state government that is now trying to take away the rights of workers and the middle class. They are clearly NOT interested in protecting them. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/200 "2011-03-10T18:38:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Republicans say OSHA enacts expensive rules without regard to their effect on business. They’ve proposed cutting its budget this year by 20 percent, a reduction the director says would be devastating to the agency’s efforts to protect worker safety. … > > … Now, Republicans in control of the House are trying to push the pendulum back. As part of their drive to cut about $61 billion from federal spending in the current fiscal year, they’ve targeted OSHA for a $99 million reduction. > > “The Republicans have proposed a 20 percent cut and given [that] half a year’s over, that really means a 40 percent cut,” OSHA administrator David Michaels says. “It would really have a devastating effect on all of our activities.” …[RIGHT][CITE](http://www.npr.org/2011/03/01/134177079/GOP-Looks-To-Make-Cuts-At-OSHA)[/RIGHT] CMC fnord! Jeez **AlienVessels** don’t you know that company stores were part of the wonderful benefits package workers got? 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=11)