# Wisconsin GOP passes union-stripping bill **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111 "2011-03-10T00:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/241 "2011-03-10T20:15:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You know what that reminds me of? > > A had a friend in college who I helped move one day. As I was loading her trunk, I noticed her spare tire was flat. “Hey,” I said, “Did you know your spare tire is flat?” > > “Yeah, I know,” she said. “I’ll have to fix that one of these days.” > > A year later, she had a job interview for an on-campus position. I did too. There were filling three slots for a pretty menial job. I think there were about forty applicants. > > I got the job. She didn’t – in fact, she missed the interview. Why? She got a flat tire. Someone immediately stopped to help her (she was pretty cute, as it happens, and though I wasn’t there I suspect she had to wait about thirteen seconds for that assistance. He volunteered to change her tire, but… the spare was flat. > > “Man, I have the worst luck!” she told me. \ So you’re saying that everyone who does not succeed has failed because they had a flat tire? Do you have a cite for that? I thought not. \ ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/242 "2011-03-10T20:16:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > 28,000 posts, yes. > > That is a lot. > > Er… spread out over ELEVEN AND A HALF YEARS. > > Somehow, that doesn’t seem to be as dramatic, does it? Just for shits and giggles, I looked at your last 500 posts. 500 posts ago was February 10 for you, and that was 28 days ago. So that’s 17.8 posts a day. Even if you average three minutes to read a thread and compose and type a post, that’s an hour a day, every day for the past month. And some days, you posted a hell of a lot more: February 11, for example, you made 53 posts. And, yes, that was a work day. All but six of those posts were made from 9-5. > [@](#): > > And I assure you that my current employer is very happy with my level and quality of work. Sorry, I don’t think someone who spends hours a day on a message board is doing a good job. Just me, though. And I think most employers would agree with me. You don’t work hard, you’re lucky to work in an office that looks the other way, frankly. Seeing the likes of you trumpet the values of “hard work” is base hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Sully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@Sully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sully)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/243 "2011-03-10T20:17:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ah, so, discrimination is tolerable and the government should ignore it because it is good for those who are discriminated against? > > That about the gist of it? Makes them tougher and work harder donchaknow… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/244 "2011-03-10T20:20:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I didn’t say that. I said that I, personally, have experienced discrimination and that I, personally, dealt with it without involving the government. By this time most of the fights to change discriminatory laws or corporations were done, of course it is easy to assume that the giants you are standing on to make your self sufficient act of today be possible can be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/245 "2011-03-10T20:25:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I didn’t say that. I said that I, personally, have experienced discrimination and that I, personally, dealt with it without involving the government. And you were dismissive of people who run to the government a plead for protection from the meanies. The implication being what they should do is suck it up, use it to give themselves strength and work harder. If they fail it is their fault and no less than they deserve and crying foul just proves how weak they are. Of course, you are almost certainly a beneficiary of liberal gringo helping hands. If left to the likes of the Tea Party I am willing to bet your dad would have never made it to the US (at least not legally) and you would not have been allowed to attend schools and by extension a university to become a successful lawyer. You’d be lucky to be a migrant farm hand at this point. By supporting the right you are pulling the ladder up behind you. Future people will not have the chance to achieve what your dad and his family did because the republicans will prevent it if they can. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/246 "2011-03-10T20:25:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I expect the dramatically successful people – the CEOs, the A-list actors, and so forth, would say that, because to get from the middle ranks to the top requires luck. > > To be solidly successful as a upper-mid-tier performer? No, that is reachable without luck. Or, to put a finer point on it, it’s by people who make their own luck. You would say I’m lucky I had a spare that has air in it. Maybe so – but I check my spare every time I put gas in the car. I check my oil every time I put gas in my car. So the fact that I don’t find myself seizing the cylinders one day because my “Check Engine” light was blown out is “lucky.” > > Except that I made that luck happen. > > Sorry, I reject the random universe bullshit. You make your own luck. Of course. Helps the old ego out if your success is all your own. And you generally do have to be swinging at the time the opportunity comes by. It is of course poor logic to assume that failure is completely the fault of those that don’t make it to the next rung up. The real world is musical chairs in a pyramid. You have to be in play to win, but a number of factors dictate success. They include fast reactions, keeping your eyes open and an open chair being near when the music stops. Of course, that assumes that everyone is playing by the rules. The person playing the music doesn’t have a preference. People don’t knock other people aside when going for the chair etc etc. It also assumes every has an equal start. None of these assumptions are correct of course. ---
**Author:** ![Sully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@Sully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sully)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/247 "2011-03-10T20:28:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > And you were dismissive of people who run to the government a plead for protection from the meanies. > > The implication being what they should do is suck it up, use it to give themselves strength and work harder. If they fail it is their fault and no less than they deserve and crying foul just proves how weak they are. > > Of course, you are almost certainly a beneficiary of liberal gringo helping hands. If left to the likes of the Tea Party I am willing to bet your dad would have never made it to the US (at least not legally) and you would not have been allowed to attend schools and by extension a university to become a successful lawyer. > > You’d be lucky to be a migrant farm hand at this point. > > By supporting the right you are pulling the ladder up behind you. Future people will not have the chance to achieve what your dad and his family did because the republicans will prevent it if they can. Nicely stated. ---
**Author:** ![Sully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/48db29/32.png) [@Sully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sully)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/248 "2011-03-10T20:31:45Z")
Another genius… During a speech on Wednesday, Wisconsin’s Secretary of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection referred to the protests in the Capitol as a “holocaust in a horror story.” Speaking about the freshmen legislators in Wisconsin, Secretary Ben Brancel said, “They came to town with a lot of ideas and a lot of concepts they could really work on and then they got stuck in the middle of a holocaust in a horror story that was going on in town…as far as people using the building all night long and some shenanigans.” After his remarks, Brancel told a reporter that holocaust was “a bad word.” “It should have been total confusion in the Capitol,” he said. “It was not an appropriate word to use in the context of which I used it, and I better go back to English school.” Beyond the obvious… English school? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/249 "2011-03-10T20:32:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …That’s why I’m a conservative. I didn’t need your fucking ladder. I climbed up the wall. Good for you. Ambition, talent, and determination, all rock solid American values. What about the rest? What about the people who are not so gifted as yourself. What happened to the guy who was just as ambitious and hard-working as yourself, but not as smart? What happened to him? You’re smart. I know that, you know that. So am I, you may have noticed. I didn’t earn smart, as best I can tell. How about you? I tend towards the morality that says “To those to whom much is given, much is expected”. You defend the one that says “Yeee-haw, if you got it, flaunt it, git in there and grab it with both hands”. But smart isn’t a virtue, smart is a characteristic, no more a virtue than being tall. To debase such a gift in order to construct elaborate rationales to defend the indefensible…well, one could do better, don’t you think? Only rats win rat races. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/250 "2011-03-10T21:07:13Z")
> [@Sully](#): > > Wow, how very generous. Something akin to someone giving you a quarter as they are stealing your wallet. \*Yes, we know you are now working 60 hours a week so we can keep laying people off and you won’t say shit because we will then kick your ass to the curb, but hey, we have free coffee… > \* And thus do the goalposts continue their journey ever onward, seeking new lands and new horizons … ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/251 "2011-03-10T21:20:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, I have experienced discrimination. Not so much these days, but when I was younger, I absolutely experienced discriminatory actions and attitudes. > > And you know what I did? I ran right to the government and screamed, “Waaah! protect me from these meanies!” > > Oh, no, wait. That wasn’t me. > > That’s why I’m a conservative. I didn’t need your fucking ladder. I climbed up the wall. Sure. All by yourself. And let’s assume that you’re totally right about that. Is there only one method allowed? Discrimination doesn’t exist? You think that the way you view the world is the way everybody else should view it. You get enraged …“That’s sexist” you simper, as if it’s witty-----when people dare to point out that your life is not their life. In fact, your story doesn’t arouse sympathy. Apparently you decided that…yes, that ladder was yours and no one else’s. Very few people are Horatio Alger. Some people are grateful and humble for those who help them and care for them and teach them. Some people recognize that others are different and that one size—which is oh-so-conveniently modeled on Bricker----doesn’t fit all. You hold yourself up as the rule and the example. It’s an act of astounding arrogance and overweening compassionlessness. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/252 "2011-03-10T21:24:07Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > …you should be informed that **Bricker** isn’t white. He’s Hispanic. Hey, wait a minute, how come he doesn’t have to be white? Shit, he’s a lawyer and a Republican, how white can you get? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/253 "2011-03-10T21:28:32Z")
> [@UncaThomas](#): > > Looks like the Repubs DID jam it through doesn’t it? So all the running away from the job, all the Union rallying, all the trash, all the Nazi signs, all the Walker-should-be-run-over-by-a-truck posts really made a difference there. What a great way to get a compromise. > > As I said upthread, this was a sorry spectacle that left no participant looking very good. I sure don’t see it as beneficial for democratic republicanism in general. It was just one more example of dysfunctional government on both sides. > > Something everyone can take real pride in; we’re destroying our system of government. > > The only thing missing was the crowds burning the Statehouse. Then we could REALLY be proud of both sides for failing to work together. Compromise? Walker made it clear from day one, he would not compromise. Besides if they want to take away the collective bargaining ,how do you compromise? That is a take it or leave it. After the right is gone it is gone. How do you get a compromise out of that? ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/254 "2011-03-10T21:33:52Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Compromise? Walker made it clear from day one, he would not compromise. Besides if they want to take away the collective bargaining ,how do you compromise? That is a take it or leave it. After the right is gone it is gone. How do you get a compromise out of that? It’s a Republican compromise, where they get 100% of what they want and you…well, you don’t exist, peon. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/255 "2011-03-10T21:39:00Z")
> [@margin](#): > > It’s a Republican compromise, where they get 100% of what they want and you…well, you don’t exist, peon. “Except every other November, when you have to vote for the Republicans because otherwise GAYSGUNSGODWILDATHEISTSANDMUSLIMSSODOMIZINGYOURCHILDRENAND BURNINGYOURCHURCHESOHMYGODSAVEUSGOP!” ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/256 "2011-03-10T21:53:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > “Except every other November, when you have to vote for the Republicans because otherwise GAYSGUNSGODWILDATHEISTSANDMUSLIMSSODOMIZINGYOURCHILDRENAND BURNINGYOURCHURCHESOHMYGODSAVEUSGOP!” It doesn’t even have to be that bad. They just prop the “we look out for the working man” bullshit, and as soon as they’re elected, they strip a lot of working men and women of things like their right to collectively bargain, and then call them whiners … until the next election when they’ll be looking out for them again. And people fall for it every fucking time. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/257 "2011-03-10T21:59:14Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Compromise? Walker made it clear from day one, he would not compromise. Besides if they want to take away the collective bargaining ,how do you compromise? That is a take it or leave it. After the right is gone it is gone. How do you get a compromise out of that? Lube or no lube. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/258 "2011-03-10T22:08:35Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Sure. > > Stock options > Flexible scheduling > Employee life insurance > Dental > Vision > Employee discounts > Education reimbursement > “Personal” days > Mass transit reimbursement > Casual Friday > Parental leave more than the law requires > Same-sex-partner benefits > Free or subsidised company cafeteria > Employee assistance programs > On-site massages and dry-cleaning pickup > Adoption assistance > > Some of those are more common than others, but I’ve had all of them at various places I’ve worked. > > The history of both paid vacations and employee retirement benefits are complicated, but certainly can’t be reduced to “nobody had them, and then the unions/laws stepped in and made them common” Hmm, well, let’s see what American workers are getting for Mass Transit Reimbursement. > [@](#): > > “in 1960, only 20 percent of mothers worked. Today, 70 percent of American children live in households where all adults are employed.” > > \ > > The U.S. is the ONLY country in the Americas without a national paid parental leave benefit. > > \ > > Zero industrialized nations are without a mandatory option for new parents to take parental leave. That is, except for the United States. > > \ > > Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker. > > \ > > The U.S. remains the only industrialized country in the world that has no legally mandated annual leave. > > SOURCE: [The U.S. is the Most Overworked Nation in the World](http://20somethingfinance.com/american-hours-worked-productivity-vacation/) > [@](#): > > In 2009, harrumphs Expedia, Americans “gave back” a total of 436m vacation days. > > SOURCE: [http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/08/americans\_vs\_vacation.html](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/08/americans_vs_vacation.html) > [@](#): > > **A Decade With No Income Gains** > > The typical American household made less money last year than the typical household made a full decade ago. > > To me, that’s the big news from the Census Bureau’s annual report on income, poverty and health insurance, which was released this morning. Median household fell to $50,303 last year, from $52,163 in 2007. In 1998, median income was $51,295. All these numbers are adjusted for inflation. > > SOURCE: [A Decade With No Income Gains - The New York Times](http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/a-decade-with-no-income-gain/) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/259 "2011-03-10T22:12:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I expect the dramatically successful people – the CEOs, the A-list actors, and so forth, would say that, because to get from the middle ranks to the top requires luck. > > To be solidly successful as a upper-mid-tier performer? No, that is reachable without luck. Or, to put a finer point on it, it’s by people who make their own luck. You would say I’m lucky I had a spare that has air in it. Maybe so – but I check my spare every time I put gas in the car. I check my oil every time I put gas in my car. So the fact that I don’t find myself seizing the cylinders one day because my “Check Engine” light was blown out is “lucky.” > > Except that I made that luck happen. > > Sorry, I reject the random universe bullshit. You make your own luck. Well, it depends. Take my own case, for instance. I’ve been working for 16 years without being layed off, even though I’ve lived through at least four company mergers or acquisitions, and more downsizings than I can count. How did I suvive all that? Well, one thing of course is that I am a competent, worthwhile employee, and all of my supervisors have known that. So that’s not luck, that’s my own doing. But also, every time there has been a layoff I happened to be working on one of the few projects that were deemed “company critical” right at that moment, so my entire team would be spared, for the most part. Now that I do consider pure luck. Other people at the company that were just as smart and just as productive as me were let go because the whole project they were working on was cancelled. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111/260 "2011-03-10T22:51:00Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Hmm, well, let’s see what American workers are getting for Mass Transit Reimbursement. Far-off lands report seeing the goalposts wandering ever onward, heedless of what lay behind, brave travellers into the mist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wisconsin-gop-passes-union-stripping-bill/574111.md?page=14)